Sheldon Furqueron on the Art of Pushing Forward
Sheldon Furqueron on the Art of Pushing Forward
What does it really take to make the most of law school? In this episode of Counseller’s Corner, Dean Jeremy Counseller has a candid, engaging conversation with Baylor Law student Sheldon Furqueron, navigating law school with perseverance and purpose. They unpack what it’s really like to live and study in Waco, reflect on time spent at Baylor Law School’s Academy of the Advocate in St Andrews, Scotland, and share the habits that quietly drive success. This episode will speak to anyone considering law school or currently navigating it, with honest insights and stories that show how to keep moving forward when opportunities feel just out of reach.
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TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy
Welcome to another edition of Counseller’s Corner. I'm Jeremy Counseller, Dean of Baylor Law School, and I am pleased today to be joined by Sheldon Furqueron, Furqueron. I knew I was going to mess that up. So, Sheldon, welcome. You are a 3L, third-year law student now.
Sheldon
Yes, sir.
Jeremy
All right. Can you just sort of in 3 or 4 sentences, summarize this law school journey? Because I, I would imagine at this point it seems to have gone by quickly. Or has it not?
Sheldon
It has gone by very, very quickly. I can't believe I started at Baylor Law, almost not quite even two years ago. It's, it's been challenging, challenging in a really good way, though I know that I have grown a lot during my time here at Baylor thus far, and excited to see how I continue to grow in my last year.
Jeremy
Okay. Tell us where you're from originally.
Sheldon
I'm from Tyler, Texas.
Jeremy
Tyler, Texas. Tell us about Tyler.
Sheldon
Tyler is such a great place to grow up. You know, some call it the capital of east Texas.
Jeremy
Just the good people.
Sheldon
Oh, yeah. There's, there's lots to do in Tyler. It's lots of availability, lots of ways to get involved. Still having that kind of small-town East Texas feel.
Jeremy
So, you, as I understand, were a Baylor undergraduate.
Sheldon
Yes, sir.
Jeremy
And then you come to Baylor Law School and I'm wondering what your, I don't know, perception of Baylor law school was when you were an undergrad. And then how that's met reality now you, now that you've been here for a couple of years.
Sheldon
Absolutely. When I was an undergrad, I thought of the law school as this kind of removed place for all the smart people, and the smart people cross the highway to, to go learn about the law. And as I've gotten to know, you know, the law school in a more familiar way, I think that's certainly true. I mean, there's just a lot of, of knowledge and intellect over here on, on the other side of the highway.
Jeremy
So, what advice would you give or perspective would you give to Baylor undergrads who are thinking about maybe going to Baylor Law School? What would you tell them?
Sheldon
Absolutely do it. You, you grow to, to love Baylor and to love Waco even more than, than maybe you did in undergrad and know that that was certainly my experience.
Jeremy
Tell me about that. Why do you grow to love Waco more?
Sheldon
Waco is so charming, and I think that the longer you're here, the more you kind of realize all the different things that Waco has to offer. You know, it's not just Baylor in Waco. It's all of the local coffee shops and the churches and people who live in Waco. Just, there's just so much more to offer than, than I definitely realized in undergrad.
Jeremy
And I think, I've been here for over 20 years, and I think it's gotten better in the last five years, I would say in particular. It's, it's got the right, in my view, it's got the right balance of everything you need. But still, having the small-town feel.
Sheldon
Absolutely.
Jeremy
Yeah. Okay. Last summer, you and I were in Scotland for the Academy of the Advocate. Our study abroad program in Scotland. Tell me what that was like for you.
Sheldon
Oh, it was absolutely fantastic. I didn't have the opportunity to study abroad in undergrad, so that was something that was really intriguing to me when deciding on a law school. And I think Baylor is, is one of the only law schools that does a program like that. So, we went over to Scotland for two weeks. I was in the School of the Appeal.
There are three different schools the School of Appeal, the School of the Trial and the Advanced School of the Trial. So, I got to do really a deep dive into appellate work with some fantastic professors, some from Baylor, but some are practitioners and judges, and I mean just incredible people to, to learn from. And I walked away from that experience knowing so much more about appellate advocacy and oral advocacy than I really had ever imagined.
Jeremy
Yeah. The program is definitely distinctive, and one of the things that that makes it distinct is, as you mentioned, we have professors from different law schools and different areas of practice, but also students from different law schools. So, it's a good, it's a good mix of, of people. What some, did you do anything for fun outside of your classes?
Sheldon
Oh, absolutely. I mean, you're in Saint Andrews. There's beautiful golf course and I can't say I'm a golfer, but just getting to walk along the golf course and enjoy the scenery and the beaches. And then we had a ceilidh dance, which is a traditional kind of Scottish world tradition. And all your professors and your friends go along with you, and you have someone leading you through, through the dances.
And I mean, that was probably a highlight of my trip.
Jeremy
The ceilidh is always a highlight.
Sheldon
Absolutely.
Jeremy
It's, it's definitely my family's favorite, favorite part of the trip every year. Well, I'm glad you enjoyed that. And, and you have also been involved here at the law school in our clinics, and I think it's the Family Law Clinic and the, the Estate's clinic as well. Let's talk about the Family Law Clinic only because it's, it's new.
And so, you just tell us about your, the work that you've done in the Family Law Clinic.
Sheldon
Absolutely. So once a month, we have the Family Law Clinic. It's kind of forefronted by Professor Stephanie Tang. She kind of sets everything up. And we have people from, from the Waco community that have real family law issues come in and seek advice. And sometimes we're able to help them fill out paperwork like petitions. And, and really just can kind of be a listening ear for those people as well.
Jeremy
Yeah. You know, Texas, like a lot of states, and it's a, it's a real I know, it's a real priority of our, our Supreme Court is access to justice is a, is, is an issue, you know, the accessibility of legal services. And so, we're trying to do our small part to help out in that area. And, the Family Law Clinic is off to a great start, helping a lot of, a lot of people do some, and with some important work.
Okay, as if that all is not enough. You are the executive editor of the law review. Okay. What is an executive editor?
Sheldon
Yes, sir. This is a position that, that I'm really honored to hold. And there are 4 or 5 of us executive editors on the law review. We work a lot with the internal student writing requirement. So, most law reviews have the members of their Law Review write a note or a comment on a particular area of the law, or an issue that may have recently arised or arisen.
And so, we, the executive editors, kind of oversee that process with the students. We make sure that their issue hasn't been written on before and that it, that it is relevant and helpful for practitioners and judges. Yeah. We just get to provide a lot of feedback on, on those articles and kind of oversee their development as the writing requirement advances.
Jeremy
Well, you're not bragging on yourself. That's a pretty high up position in the Law Review. So, congratulations on that. That's really good. The other thing that's, that I want to highlight here is you got under the law review because you wrote on to the Law Review. You basically, you won a writing competition.
Sheldon
Yes sir.
Jeremy
And so, I want to talk to people who, who may be thinking about going to law school. I think we have listeners like that. And they may have heard of the Law Review, and they think, well, I've got to get a certain GPA to be on the Law Review. But there's actually another route which is to write-on to Law Review. So, talk about that process.
Sheldon
Yeah, absolutely. The Law Review at Baylor, every year we host two different write-on competitions, and one is in the fall and one is in the spring. And about a year ago last spring, I did the write-on competition. So, I knew going into law school that the Law Review was going to be something that, that I really wanted to, to do.
And, you know, unfortunately, grades came back and I didn't quite make the cut for, for that GPA and just decided that I was going to do the write-on competition. So that kind of looked like getting an email in my inbox one day that the write-on competition was starting, and you've got two weeks to write on a specific topic that the law review put out.
And if you were in the, the top, you know, three, three or four scoring students on that writing sample. Then you were invited to join the Baylor Law Review.
Jeremy
Well, congratulations on that. Obviously, you've done great service on the Law Review, as evidenced by you being an executive editor. But the other thing about what you're saying is people often appropriately, rightly talk about doors opening, but sometimes you have to kick the door down.
Sheldon
Yes, sir.
Jeremy
You have to kick it down. And that was a door that didn't open for you one way. And so, you found another way.
Sheldon
Absolutely, absolutely.
Jeremy
Kudos. Kudos to you that that's fantastic. And because of your exceptional writing skills, you have been asked to serve on our competition moot court teams, including as a brief writer. And you were, you were a brief writer, I believe, for Professor Serr’s ABA moot court team.
Sheldon
Yes sir, I am.
Jeremy
He's a stickler for good writers, so he must have been impressed. Talk about what it means to be a brief writer on an, on a moot court team, and what role the brief plays in the... It's a little bit different depending on the competition, but what role the brief plays in a moot court competition.
Sheldon
Sure. So, the moot court competitions, they have a scored round over the brief. And so, before you go to the competition, you're given a problem that's again over a relevant area of, of law. And you know the oral advocates are busy preparing. How am I going to argue, you know, one side and then the other side orally and the, but the brief writers have the position of writing the appellate brief, and there are lots of little technical details and rules that, that must be followed.
So that's kind of a part of writing the brief is making sure that you're following all of those technical details.
Jeremy
Attention to detail.
Sheldon
Absolutely.
Jeremy
To, to, I remember just, sorry to interrupt, but I remember when I wrote my first brief in law school, I was, that was what really drove home to me how attentive to detail you have to be. Down to the what is italicized in a citation, all of these things, I mean, but that's the, that's at the heart of being a lawyer is attention to detail.
Anyway. Sorry. Go ahead. You were talking about writing the brief in the moot court competition.
Sheldon
Absolutely. So, you know, as your, the, your partners on, on the team are kind of working on more of the how am I going to deliver this, this argument in an oral advocacy manner. It's, it's more of my role to, to put that into words. And so that when someone is reading it, they're really persuaded that your side or your argument as petitioner or respondent is, is the right result for this kind of unresolved area of law. And a lot of work goes into that.
Jeremy
Absolutely.
Sheldon
And it is, it's mainly the brief writer's responsibility. But you do get some help from, from your teammates. They're kind of looking over your shoulder while you're writing this. I mean, and they can be, could be quite lengthy. I think one that I turned in was 48 pages. So, I mean, it's quite a big project.
Jeremy
Well, it's also, and you know this as because you've, you've shined as a writer at the law school. But so much of what lawyers do today, I think a lot of people coming into law school think I want to be an advocate. Okay. And I want to stand in a courtroom and say things. And there's, there's a place for that.
But so much of what we do nowadays it's written advocacy. And to hone those skills while in law school as you've done is, is incredibly important.
Sheldon
Thank you.
Jeremy
Incredibly important.
Sheldon
Thank you.
Jeremy
So, so good. Good for you. Okay. It's just an endless list of all the things you're doing here. You're a student coach for the ABA client counseling team.
What does a student coach, first of all, what's client counseling? And what is your role as a student coach?
Sheldon
Client counseling is when, you know, client first walks into, into your office as an attorney, and they sit down at your desk and you have no idea what their legal issue is, and you're trying to kind of pull out of them, you know, why are you here? Can I help you with whatever it is that your, you have going on in, in kind of a short amount of time.
So, the ABA puts on a client counseling competition for students to be able to hone those skills so that the first time that you're meeting with a client and, and trying to walk through that process isn't, you know, your first day on the job as an associate. And I'm acting as a student coach, as you said, in this year's ABA client counseling team.
So, I get to come up with a lot of different hypotheticals for the oral advocates on the client counseling competition. And I write those out, and I find another willing student to kind of come in and act as our client and see if the oral advocates can pick out what exactly their legal issue is, and then turn that into solutions for them, legal and non-legal.
Jeremy
Because the, the person who's playing the client, my understanding is doesn't necessarily know what the legal issue is. They just have a problem, and also don't they sort of have some information that they might withhold unless they're specifically asked about it, and think so it's up to the advocates to kind of get in there and ferret it out and all that.
Sheldon
Yes. That's correct.
Jeremy
That sounds like a that sounds like a lot of fun. Okay. Practice court. You are not in practice court yet?
Sheldon
No, sir.
Jeremy
Okay. But I understand that you've volunteered as a witness in practice court.
Sheldon
Yes sir, I did.
Jeremy
Okay, so just for our listeners practice, one of the thing practice, practice court involves is simulated trials, among other things, but simulated trials. And often students will serve as the witnesses. And you served as a witness. So, I'm curious about what you may have learned about practice court while you were serving as a witness or other observations you have about that, because it's so mysterious and it's so, to those who haven't been through it, and people tend to fear it and worry about it. So, what do you think?
Sheldon
I think I learned maybe not so much about practice court in particular through witnessing. I think I kind of learned, you know, maybe what, what it looks like logistically of what all I will need to do to find witnesses for my own big trial as I'm getting ready to graduate. And how can I prepare those other very busy law students who are doing me a favor to witness well for my, my big trial.
And I think that that's a transferable skill in practice as well. You know, you're going to have to prep clients to, to take the stand. And, and that can be a scary thing to do.
Jeremy
Yeah. I think it's also because I was in practice court, taught in practice court for many years. And you sit in the courtroom as the faculty observer and there's a lot that the students understandably aren't doing perfectly. But also, I had them in their first term in law school in Civil Procedure. I'm like, you know, back in my mind, I'm like, these kids have come a long way.
Sorry. Not to say, they're not all kids, but these students have come a long way in their two and a half to three years of, of law school. Okay. So how is it that you have become this involved with this much stuff going on? I guess what I'm trying to ask is a question I often ask students, how do you balance it all?
Because you've got law school, which most people would say, and I think it's true, that's more than a full-time job. And then you have these other things that no doubt are contributing to your development, your professional development, but it's a lot. So, what is your advice on how you keep it all appropriately balanced, or can you not?
Sheldon
It's hard. It's, it's a hard thing to, to be able to juggle. I look at it as, as this is only three years and I have three years to grow as much as possible, and so every opportunity that comes along is, is an opportunity to foster that growth, that and to learn something that I'll carry into my career.
Now, what that looks like practically, I mean it's, it's being very organized and blocking out. You know, I have an hour right now and, and in that hour I'm going to build the table of contents for my moot court brief and kind of really having a schedule, sticking to a schedule, waking up early, kind of taking advantage of some of those quieter morning hours has really been, been beneficial for me.
Jeremy
This sounds like the advice I gave you when you started law school. Do you remember?
Sheldon
Yes, sir.
Jeremy
Get up early, have a study schedule. We'll do all that stuff. It's fantastic.
Sheldon
I took it to heart.
Jeremy
It's working out for you.
Sheldon
Yes, sir.
Jeremy
It's working out for you. I don't know if that works for everybody, but I've always found, you know, the getting up early, this isn't for everyone. It works for me. Getting up early. There's a period of time between I think 5:00 and 8:00 where nobody's calling you. They're, they're, they're very few emails that come in. Although we have some early risers around here and I will see emails at that time.
But I think for me that, that helps, that helps. So that it works for me. I'm glad it's working for you. It's clearly working for you. Okay. We've come to the lightning round. The questions are silly. Your answers have to be short. What is your favorite coffee or tea venue in Waco?
Sheldon
Dichotomy.
Jeremy
If you could have one of these two things forever, would it be unlimited books or unlimited travel?
Sheldon
Unlimited travel.
Jeremy
Correct answer. Do you prefer a super organized closet or a perfectly organized inbox?
Sheldon
A closet.
Jeremy
Night owl or early bird? You just answered this.
Sheldon
Early bird.
Jeremy
What is your favorite way to celebrate good news?
Sheldon
Oh, dinner with friends.
Jeremy
What is one thing that never fails to cheer you up?
Sheldon
Calling my grandmother.
Jeremy
Favorite board game or card game?
Sheldon
Chutes and ladders.
Jeremy
Still?
Sheldon
Still.
Jeremy
Okay. When traveling, do you like exploring someplace new or returning to a favorite place?
Sheldon
Oh. Someplace new.
Jeremy
What is a hobby you wish you had more time for?
Sheldon
Playing the piano.
Jeremy
You play the piano?
Sheldon
Not well.
Jeremy
Okay. All right. I understand you have a question or two for me.
Sheldon
Oh, yes. Dean Counseller, when you were in law school or in practice, did you have kind of, like a pump-up ritual, maybe before an exam or trial?
Jeremy
No.
Sheldon
Oh, no.
Jeremy
No, I, I really, I mean, I definitely had, like in law school, definitely a study process. But I didn't have a pump-up ritual. Yeah. I'm sorry to disappoint on that question. I just, I don't, I don't really have that.
Sheldon
That's okay. Because I have another one for you.
Jeremy
Okay. You know, shoot with the, let's see, let's see what the other one is. Okay.
Sheldon
If you had to take a law school exam tomorrow, not in the class that you've taught -
Jeremy
Okay.
Sheldon
Which exam would you take?
Jeremy
That's a great question. It's a, it's a nightmare. I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to take any of them. I guess, I guess I would do torts. I guess I would do torts.
Sheldon
Great.
Jeremy
Yeah, I because I have some familiarity. I'd like some, some more significant practice experience in that area. So maybe some of it has stuck with me. But yeah, I would do. Do I get to study for this?
Sheldon
You have until tomorrow morning at 8 am.
Jeremy
Oh, oh! Then, I would take the course that was the fewest credit hours so do the least amount of damage to my GPA.
Sheldon
Very smart.
Jeremy
That's what I would do.
Sheldon
All right.
Jeremy
Well, Sheldon, thank you so much. This has been fantastic. And I appreciate all that you're doing at the law school. And we're, we're proud of you. You're going to be a big success.
Sheldon
Thank you. Dean Counseller, I appreciate it very much.
