From One Court to Another, Charli Delmonico Reflects on her Time at Baylor Law School
From One Court to Another, Charli Delmonico Reflects on her Time at Baylor Law School
From the tennis courts of San Antonio to the courtroom in Practice Court, third-year student Charli Delmonico brings a competitor’s mindset to Baylor Law School. As the current Editor-in-Chief of the Baylor Law Review and having recently finished Big Trial, she reflects on discipline, resilience, late nights drafting motions, and the moment she realized she could do more than she ever thought possible. She also credits her Practice Court partner, Emily Lentzner, for pushing her limits and making the experience even more rewarding.
Dean Jeremy Counseller and Charli also explore what Law Review truly entails, why Baylor Law School’s rigorous Practice Court program is so transformative, and whether former student-athletes gain an advantage in law school. Their conversation offers an honest look at growth, perseverance, and the habits that equip Baylor Lawyers for success in their profession.
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TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy
Welcome to another edition of Counseller’s Corner. I'm Jeremy Counseller, Dean of Baylor Law School, and I'm very pleased today to be joined by third year law student Charli Delmonico. Charli, how are you doing?
Charli
I'm doing great. Thank you. Thank you for having me on today.
Jeremy
Good, good. So, a little bit about your background. You, I think you're from Austin.
Charli
Yes, I am.
Jeremy
Went to college in Austin?
Charli
Actually, I went to college in San Antonio.
Jeremy
In San Antonio. Okay. I apologize. And you, in, in college, you played collegiate tennis? Is that right?
Charli
Yes.
Jeremy
So, here's my question. What do you think about pickleball?
Charli
I love it.
Jeremy
Do you?
Charli
I do.
Jeremy
I was hoping that was a little bit incendiary of a comment.
Charli
No, I actually so many, so many tennis players don't like it. They think that it's almost like a grandparent's version of tennis, I would say. But it's actually really fun. And I think that there are different skills that you actually have to use to play. I also like padel, which is a new sport.
Jeremy
Okay.
Charli
What? I don't think it's new necessarily, but new to America I would say.
Jeremy
Okay.
Charli
And it's kind of like pickleball, but it's, there's like walls that you can hit off of, and you're using a different kind of paddle. It's really cool.
Jeremy
So, I took up pickleball. Never played a racket sport. Never played tennis. And what I noticed about pickleball is that the people who played tennis all their lives were really good at pickleball. Like, to the point that even the elderly men and women that I would play, who'd play tennis all their life, they could defeat me in pickleball because they knew how to put special spin on the ball and all the stuff and…
Charli
Yes.
Jeremy
I thought it was unfair and so...
Charli
I think the older you get, the better you naturally get at the sport.
Jeremy
Okay. Well, that that's something to recommend it. So, when you played tennis in college, how does that competitive nature, I'm going to assume you have a competitive nature, does that translate into law school at all you think?
Charli
I would say so. I think it's, I would say that, I feel like, I don't think that competitiveness is something that turns off necessarily. I mean, it could be a board game, and I would get overly competitive. But I think in law school it's translated really well in the sense that I'm not looking at everyone else like an enemy necessarily, but it's more like, I'm going in and I know that I want to win whatever winning looks like.
And I think that that can be a positive thing whenever we are in law school or going into a legal career. It has made winning and losing feel like a part of life. And I think that makes it a lot easier to go into exams knowing that that this may be one I don't do so well, or this may be one that I crush it.
And so, I think it's helped me get over humps in law school. Yes.
Jeremy
Okay. Can it get, do you, how do you, how do you keep that competitive nature, particularly in law school, from becoming a negative? I mean, in terms, particularly in terms of relationships among students.
Charli
I would say the way that I've seen it. I mean, tennis is an individual sport,
Jeremy
Right.
Charli
But when I was playing in college, we were all individual players playing on the same team. And at the end of the day, when I was, when I was going into law school, I had a really excellent mentor who said that the best thing that I was going to take away from this experience was probably going to be the relationships that I build.
And so, from day one, even though it kind of felt like an academic Hunger Games a little bit in that first quarter because no one really knows what they're doing, I went in with the hopes that everyone here would feel like a teammate by the time that we graduated. So even though I've been competitive, more so with myself, and with others once we get close to finals time, it's been nice knowing that at the end of the day, the goal isn't to necessarily beat everyone on an exam, but to walk out of here feeling like I've built a strong network and that people will, maybe refer clients to me, and I would do the same for them.
Jeremy
So, I want to talk to you about something that I think is a, I'll just speak for myself. When I came to law school, it was a, it was an unknown to me. And then quickly became a known mystery to me. You are the editor- in-chief of the Baylor Law Review, which is a very prestigious and important leadership position at this law school and at any law school to hold that position.
But when I came to law school, I didn't, I had never heard of law review, didn't know what it was, didn't know it was a thing. But shortly after you start law school, you, you hear other students like tell you that's a thing you want to be on. You should want to be on law review. So, I want you to help those prospective students who may be listening to the podcast, think about law review.
What is the Baylor Law Review?
Charli
So, it's kind of hard to encapsulate it into one thing. But the way that I see it is that it's an opportunity to engage in legal scholarship, in that it opens up the door for students to get used to not only using the Bluebook and figuring out how to cite things correctly, but also giving the giving them like an official opportunity to write an article and have it published by a prestigious organization like the Baylor Law Review.
Jeremy
So, the Baylor Law Review is a publication that at the end of the day, it's a legal journal.
Charli
Yes. And what's really neat is that the students, as they're working on their articles, have the opportunity to work with mentors, and these are faculty members that get to work with them for a whole year as they write their articles and then eventually publish them. And what's cool about the Baylor Law Review, but also any law review, is that once we publish these, they can be used by courts and by, by lawyers.
And so, it opens up an opportunity for a student to get to really immerse themselves into this specific area of the law that others can then use later on.
Jeremy
Yeah, it's an interesting feature of legal academia, which is that legal scholars want to be published in law reviews or law journals that are run by law school, are hosted by law schools.
And those law reviews are run by students. Students literally hold the keys to the kingdom when it comes to being published as a legal academic. So, Baylor Law Review students run our Baylor Law Review. So, it's, it's an interesting thing. And congratulations on that. That's a, that's an incredible achievement.
Charli
Thank you very much.
Jeremy
Okay, now we need to talk about Practice Court because you are finishing Practice Court, and student after student comes on this podcast.
And like, I've got Practice Court coming. I'm scared. I'm this, I’m that. Well, you're at the end of it.
Charli
Yes.
Jeremy
And I think you have finished your big trial.
Charli
Yes sir.
Jeremy
Okay, so tell us what big trial is. And then I want to talk about your experience with big trial.
Charli
Sure. So, the big trial is essentially the culmination of everything that we've learned in Practice Court One and Practice Court Two, and Practice Court Three as well. And it's cool because in Practice Court one and two, we do mini trials where we're learning how to use the rules of evidence and the rules of civil procedure to actually conduct a trial.
And by the time we get to our big trial in Practice Court three, the professors are a little more hands off in terms of what we're actually, our trial strategy, and what we're planning on doing in the trial. In fact, they're not even, they're very hands on in the mini trials. Once we get to a big trial, the judge is some, is an external attorney that comes in and the professors are just popping in and watching rather than stopping us, to tell us, to give us advice on what to do.
And big trial, what makes it different from the mini trials is that we do an entire trial from start to finish. And that means that, not only are we going in and doing the actual trial for however many hours that it takes, but we're also conducting the depositions and filing motions and doing everything that we would in a normal trial, but with condensed deadlines.
So, one day in Practice Court is considered one week in real time. So, if we would have 21 days to file something in real life, we would then have three days to file it in Practice Court. But the catch, and I think what can be challenging is, that our normal duties for class don't change just because we have a deadline.
And all the deadlines look different for the students, because it's just however their trial unfolds and there are different facts in different cases that everyone has. But that's how I would describe big trial.
Jeremy
So, let's talk about your big trial experience. Can you give me a brief summary of what the case was about?
Charli
Yes.
Jeremy
Okay.
Charli
So, it was about we were given about 3500 pages of documents, which was quite a lot, and it was a shareholder derivative case, where we were representing a father who had passed away two weeks before signing, before issuing shares to himself in a company that was owned by him and his son. And it was the, In re Estate of Poe case, which is based on Dick Poe's story, and his, his real life.
And, and it was actually a lot of fun. I was very intimidated at first. But I took this bus orgs1 and bus orgs2, too, with Professor Miller, and it was really neat getting to watch all of those concepts unfold at trial.
Jeremy
So, you, you mentioned correctly, you've got this big trial, but you also have class.
Charli
Yes.
Jeremy
And reading assignments associated with class. Can you like walk me through a typical day of Practice Court during this time period? You wake up in the morning. When does it happen and tell me how it goes from there?
Charli
Yes. So, Practice Court one and two look very different from Practice Court three. But when we're inPractice Court three, we start at 8 a.m. as opposed to 7:45 in PC one and PC two. And we're in class for about an hour and ten minutes before we go to electives for the rest of the morning. And then we come back around, like one, one in the afternoon.
And then we have class for about 2.5 hours, and that's usually every day. But once we get closer to big trial, the professors are very cognizant of that and that we need more time. So usually, we won't have afternoon classes during that time. But when we don't have those afternoon classes, we’re typically writing motions and trying to get further in our trials.
Jeremy
I'm wondering how your experience in Practice Court compared with how you thought it was going to be as it was approaching.
Charli
I love this question. I, I didn't know very much about Practice Court before getting in. I knew that I rarely ever saw the students that were in Practice Court when I was leading up to it. And that they did look tired.
Jeremy
And now you know why.
Charli
They were, secluded, I would say, in the practice courtroom for most of the day. And, and yes, now I do know why. I didn't, I didn't really know what it was going to look like. I knew that it was going to be hard. And, and I was hoping that it would be. And they delivered. It was challenging, but what I really like is that Baylor Law has never been shy of that fact.
I knew that it was going to be hard. I didn't know what that was going to look like on the day-to-day. Once we got in, I think I didn't expect there to be so many readings. And I say that with actually a lot of gratitude because at this point, I feel like we can read a case a lot faster than we ever could and get to the heart of what we're looking for.
And what I would say I'm most appreciative of is that Practice Court gave me the opportunity to see where my limits really are, because before Practice Court, I didn't know how much we could really do. And now that we've been through Practice Court, my expectations and even my standards for myself have risen tremendously because, I mean, my Practice Court partner, who, she is brilliant. I am convinced she is a genius. She's, she was fantastic to work with, but I think…
Jeremy
What's her name?
Charli
Emily Lentzner. She's fantastic. And I'm so proud to be her Practice Court partner, but I think one of our most productive evenings was when we belted out a 15-page motion in a day, and that was on top of all of our readings and everything else. And I've never felt more proud of myself, because that took an entire quarter when I first started at Baylor Law.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Charli
So, I could not be, I shouldn't, I know that some of the Practice Court partners or the Practice Court students are probably, this is still very fresh, but I couldn't be more appreciative of this program.
Jeremy
I had a similar take away from when I was in Practice Court. I'm a Baylor Law School graduate. I went through Practice Court just as every Baylor lawyer who is has. And my big, biggest takeaway many, many takeaways, but my biggest takeaway was I can do more than I thought I could. I'm capable of more than I thought I could, and that's one of the many gifts that Practice Court gives to all students, even if they're never going to go into litigation.
Just this idea that my capacity to, to, to work, my capacity to generate value is, is greater. And it's a, that's a, that's an incredible strength that you, you carry with you out into the profession.
Charli
I think so, I think so too. I'll be forever grateful.
Jeremy
Any particular part of the big trial process that you found most challenging that puts you out of your comfort zone the most?
Charli
Yes. I would say believing that I knew the case as well as I did was actually really difficult to get to because it was so complex, and this is something I never would have done in a mini trial, because I didn't feel as comfortable with the case and honestly, with the concepts. Once we got to big trial, I wrote a cross-examination during trial and for me, I'm always someone that has to be hyper prepared for whatever I'm going to do.
So that was really far out of my comfort zone, but it was really nice because that was probably my most effective cross, because it was very much in the moment, and it was very responsive to what the witness had been talking about on direct. And that was challenging. Also believing that I could actually take a deposition was really challenging because I had worked at firms and I saw their attorneys take depositions and it seemed like it was effortless.
But I knew that I had to be very prepared to do it. So, the build up to actually taking that first deposition was really challenging. Because I had to know quite a bit about this case in order to feel comfortable enough to ask those kinds of questions to someone.
Jeremy
Yeah. So, what are you going to do with all this? Do you know what you're, what the future holds for you, at least the near term?
Charli
Yes.
Jeremy
Tell me about that.
Charli
When I graduate, I'm going to be working for Judge Mark Lane in Austin, and he's a magistrate judge. I'm so grateful and so appreciative for that opportunity. And I…
Jeremy
And that's a year long, I assume your long clerkship? Yep.
Charli
Yes. And then after that, I'll be going to Naman Howell in their Austin office.
Jeremy
Very good. So, you're going home?
Charli
Yes.
Jeremy
Is your family in Austin?
Charli
They, actually they moved recently to Liberty Hill.
Jeremy
Okay.
Charli
And it's a, it's pretty close to Austin. It's about 45 minutes out. But they're close enough.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Charli
Yes.
Jeremy
That's good.
Charli
Thank you.
Jeremy
That’s great. Okay, Charli, we've come to the lightning round.
Charli
All right, I'm ready.
Jeremy
Questions are silly. Answers have to be short. Which season fits your personality best?
Charli
Winter.
Jeremy
You can only listen to one musical artist or band for the next month. Who is that going to be?
Charli
Luke Combs.
Jeremy
Would you rather explore space or the deep ocean?
Charli
Ooh, the deep ocean.
Jeremy
Pause button or a rewind button for your life?
Charli
Pause.
Jeremy
You can only keep three apps on your phone. Which ones are they?
Charli
Outlook, Messages, and Photos.
Jeremy
What simple activity instantly boosts your mood?
Charli
Talking to my siblings.
Jeremy
What's a movie you can quote start to finish?
Charli
Oh, I haven't watched a movie in a long time. Kung Fu Panda.
Jeremy
If you could teleport anywhere instantly, where would you go?
Charli
Home.
Jeremy
All right, you've passed the lightning round. I understand you have a question for me.
Charli
Yes. And it actually matches very closely to something that we were talking about earlier. You had mentioned tennis in a lot of your examples whenever I was in your Civ Pro class.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Charli
And I know that we've talked a little bit about sports. Do you think that there's a competitive advantage that former student athletes have in law school?
Jeremy
I'm probably the worst person to ask about that because I wasn't a college, college athlete. I've heard you and other student athletes in law school talk about sort of, some of the things that they feel benefit them. You know, I think there's a discipline that you develop as a student athlete, or at least you can. It gives you an opportunity to develop discipline, if for no other reason than, you know, student athletes who come to law school were, yes, student athletes, but also good students.
And they have to balance that. The time management aspect of that, I think, can be an advantage in law school. I also like the, and I don't know that tennis is the best example of this, but the idea that, maybe more for track and field athletes, the idea of a personal best that, you know, not just do you win the heat or do you win the race, but how does your time, compared to your own, your time, this, in this event, compared to your own personal best?
That to me can be a really helpful thing for students as well. You know, to this discipline of improvement, constant improvement, rather than comparing yourself to something kind of randomly assigned. This is, you got to get on law review. Well, no you don't. And, but where are you compared to your own personal best? I think there's a lot of habits that I've heard student law students who are former student athletes talk about that to me ring true. But it's not, you know, it's not part of my own experience because I wasn't a good enough athlete or student for that matter in high school, I wasn't good enough at either. So yeah.
Charli
But that makes sense.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Charli
That makes complete sense. Actually, I, I like the idea...
Jeremy
I mean, I turn the question back to you, do you, do you, what do you think on that?
Charli
I would say I, I think that there is a form of discipline that student athletes develop that they have to develop in order to compete at a high level. But once we, once we're here and we're all going through the same thing, I think one of the only things that I would say maybe a big differentiator could be mindset, in the sense that student athletes, if they don't learn to speak to themselves positively and be their own biggest cheerleader, then they probably won't go very far.
And I think here in law school, when so many of, so many of our accolades are private and so are a lot of our, losses, personal losses are very private. And I think being in athletics teaches you how to self-regulate in and talk to yourself in a positive way so that you become your biggest supporter rather than your greatest adversary.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Jeremy
I think that's a great point. Also, if you're a student athlete, you've lost.
Charli
A lot.
Jeremy
Right? You've lost a lot.
Charli
Yes.
Jeremy
And I think that is a really important teacher that, a loss isn't the end, right?
Charli
Yes.
Jeremy
As lawyers, we're going to have victories. We're going to have defeats. But you've got to keep going. The resilience factor is, I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think that experience as a student athlete can build resilience. If you're making a list of the most important characteristics of a lawyer, if resilience isn't number one, I mean, it's got to be right up there at the top, and I can't think of one that's more important than that.
And I would think, you know, being a student athlete would develop those characteristics. It's not the only thing that can develop that. But, you know, a lot of students who've had sort of this smooth, straight trajectory from kindergarten to law school and everything has, you know, just turned up roses and gone exactly the way they wanted it to.
That's not going to remain true in law school. There, it's important that law school give you the experience of you, you know, this wasn't perfect. You need to improve in this area, in this area. Student athletes have had that. Right?
Charli
I agree.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Charli
And I mean, that's how that's how it felt for me. Whenever I first started, I had never seen a B on my transcript until I got here. And then I saw quite a bit of them in that first quarter. And there was a lot of adjustments that had to be made. And I think what's really cool is that Baylor Law School gives us that opportunity with the third quarter moot court competition, where students that are good speakers and who enjoy doing that, maybe they don't have the best grades, but they get some sort of recognition for that skill that they have.
And so, I was really appreciative of the third quarter moot court competition, just based on how law school, how this law school is and how it works.
Jeremy
Yeah, lots of opportunity for, you know… There's lots of opportunity for achievement in law school. I mean, certainly true at Baylor Law School, lots of opportunity for achievement. But that also means lots of opportunity where you try and you fail. And that is the most important thing, is that you get out of your comfort zone and you get out there and you try.
Charli
Yes.
Jeremy
Really, really important. Charli, thanks. It's been great. Appreciate you.
Charli
I appreciate you having me. I appreciate it.
for having me. Yeah.
