Mari Sanchez: From Filing Papers to Filing Briefs at Baylor Law School
In this episode of Counseller’s Corner, Dean Jeremy Counseller sits down with first-year law student Mari Sanchez, who began her journey at Baylor Law School as an undergraduate student worker in the Dean’s Office.
Mari shares how her early experiences shaped her understanding of the purpose and community that define Baylor Law School, influencing her decision to attend despite the program’s rigorous nature. Now well into her first year, she reflects on the fast-paced workload, first-quarter finals, the Socratic Method, and how she secured her summer internship.
She also shares her Waco roots and the significance of remaining in Waco for both her undergraduate studies and law school. This episode provides an encouraging look at the first-year experience at Baylor and offers thoughtful advice for those considering Baylor Law School.
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TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy
Welcome to another episode of Counseller’s Corner. My guest today is Mari Sanchez. And by the way, this is Jeremy Counseller, Dean of Baylor law School. Mari is at the end of her first year of law school, so she hasn't been here very long. But she is no stranger to Baylor Law School.
Because, before you came to law school…
Mari
Yes.
Jeremy
What was your, before you became a law student, what was your connection to Baylor Law School?
Mari
So, I got the privilege to work in the Dean’s suite when I was in undergrad. So, I got to know a lot of the faculty, lot of the staff…
Jeremy
- as a student worker.
Mari
As a student worker.
Jeremy
Because you were a Baylor undergrad?
Mari
Yes, exactly. So, I got to see a lot of behind the scenes. It was extremely fun.
Jeremy
Mari, I don't mind telling you that when you said you got the privilege to work in the Dean suite, there was a bit of sarcasm underlying that. I detected sarcasm.
Mari
No, no, I genuinely… It was such a wonderful opportunity. I have fallen in love with Baylor Law because of that. Definitely did not mean for it to be sarcastic. That was completely true. Completely true.
Jeremy
So, tell me what. Well, I, what was your impression of the law school that you gained from being a student worker? Because at that point, you're an undergraduate student, not a law student, but you're getting to know staff in a way that's different than law students because you're working with them. So, what was your impression of law school after that?
Mari
I honestly, I was like, okay, this is, this is hard. I was seeing, you know, students walk through maybe a little sad looking perhaps, but in the way of, okay, they’re…
Jeremy
after grades come out
Mari
Right? Right. It was always that time, And I knew when we pushed him out, I was like, oh, it'll be a good time.
But no, in the way of, I saw that while they were working very hard, it was a place that they felt completely poured into, completely invested in, and then I got to obviously meet you guys and meet some staff and faculty that walked through. And I genuinely, I saw what it meant to them to be able to mentor students and to be able to bring them, through the three years and what that looked like.
And so, I, I was like, okay, I know Baylor Law’s hard. I understand that I get law school in general, but Baylor Law specifically holds a certain standard of excellence. But in the way of these people are doing this for a purpose beyond law school. And I could see that. So evidently, and everybody that I talked to, it was, they understand this is hard because they're going to advocate for someone later on. And that meant a lot to them. So, yeah.
Jeremy
Well, I'm glad that was your impression as a student worker. How has it held up now that you’re a law student?
Mari
I was like, coming in, I was like, oh, I know this. I'm this is familiar. I know the process, quarter system. Come on. Oh, my goodness. I was like, wait, no, did, did not know at all. But no, it has been so amazing to get to be on the other side of it. I was, I mean, I was sitting in your class quarter one like or am I sure that I'm enrolled here right now? I'm, I’m... Can someone check to make sure there was not like a clerical error?
Jeremy
Is this real?
Mari
Exactly.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Mari
I was like, I can just be sitting in here actually, like not on the roster whatsoever. But it was, it was so surreal. I had been there, you know. Four years I worked here and then took a gap year, and I came back and some people remembered me that I didn't think they would. And so, they were like, probably like, when is this girl getting out of here?
I mean, she's been here for so long.
Jeremy
Okay. I was told to ask you this question, and I will just say I have no idea the context of this question.
Mari
Gotcha.
Jeremy
But this is a consequence of you knowing people on the staff. Okay? Here's the question. How many three pointers did you hit last night?
Mari
Oh my gosh, that is amazing. I actually, you know, too many to count. And it just, they all run together.
Jeremy
What were you playing? Was this like one of those little toss it in things at, at Dave and Busters or?
Mari
So I actually am living out my dreams because I was so close my senior year of undergrad of winning the championship in intramural basketball.
Jeremy
Okay.
Mari
Yeah. So, this is full on five v. five. I mean…
Jeremy
This is law school intramural basketball.
Mari
This is undergrad.
Jeremy
Oh, you're playing undergrad. You, then you've got to be disqualified from that. This, this podcast episode is going to disqualify you.
Mari
And that's so true. I mean, a 23-year-old against some 18-year-olds. What's happening? I, let me just beat up on them, I guess. But no, it's, I have some undergrad friends who I played with.
Jeremy
Okay.
Mari
And they let us in.
Jeremy
I will note you have not answered my question. How many three pointers did you hit?
Mari
I only got two.
Jeremy
Okay.
Mari
So, whoever's hyping me up.
Jeremy
Okay.
Mari
I mean, must have thought I looked good.
Jeremy
That's pretty good though.
Mari
I appreciate that though.
Jeremy
That's pretty good. I’m going to come back. You touched on this a minute ago, just sort of the transition into law school. What, maybe what surprised you most about law school? Because you were more familiar with us, at least. And then you get into the classroom. What surprised you most about that?
Mari
Definitely. So, a couple of things come to mind. I think first, the people, I mean, I've gotten to know some of the students when I was here, of course, but being in it, the camaraderie and how quickly we all bonded, how absolutely servant-hearted, so many, I mean, all of my classmates are in the way of how we all want to help each other. And, you know, I had heard stuff when I was here of, oh, maybe that's, you know, competitiveness and that's I mean, you want that. You want the competitiveness to make us better. But I saw my classmates when we come together and just make each other better without the, without any sort of, I guess, back-handedness or anything like that.
It’s just these people that I get to do this with. It's so wonderful and I've made such close friendships already. So, I was not super expecting that. But I think another thing, I mean, undergrad, you know, did honors, read, wrote a lot, all the things. But the volume, for sure of what law school classes entail, what that looks like of pace and the quarter system to mimic what, you know, real life would look like in that way, I think that was an adjustment.
I was like, okay, now I'm I feel challenged. I’m feeling like, okay, this is something I gotta make sure I manage my time well.
Jeremy
Yeah. So, I’m going to ask you this. The, you mentioned earlier, I can't believe I'm sitting here in this classroom now. I think a lot of people have that feeling like. And for some, some of us, it's more like, what am I doing here?
How I… I was wondering if there's a moment somewhere along the way where you’re like, okay think maybe I can do this? Was there a moment like that?
Mari
I think definitely after finals, the first finals, first quarter finals, it was like, okay, I did that. Took, I took the final. I honestly like looking back, okay, I did a hard thing of taking a law school final, but seeing the nine weeks of work that was put in.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Mari
I think that was, that was the moment I was like, I think I can, I think I'll be okay.
Yeah, I think it'll be okay.
Jeremy
You know, I had a similar feeling after I took the bar exam.
Mari
Oh goodness.
Jeremy
Like I walked, I walked out of there, and I thought I traded blows with that exam, you know, it didn't it didn't beat me down. I may not have beaten it down, but, but I traded blows.
Mari
Exactly, exactly.
Jeremy
Okay. Specifically in class. This is something I don't think we've really talked about on the podcast. The Socratic Method. Being called on.
Mari
Love it.
Jeremy
You have to stand up. You have to answer questions of the professor's questions in front of your class. If you don't get them right, the professor will probably ask another student. It's probably the only thing that student knows, but they get it right and it makes you feel like, oh, well, you know, now I'm not. So just talk about that. Talk about the experience. I assume you've been called on a number of times at this point.
Mari
Yes, I have. It's been a good time. That definitely was something that I obviously knew that was going to happen coming in. But doing that and standing up and kind of being able to have an opportunity of working through something that not all, I mean, all of us are like, okay, thank God it wasn't me when someone gets called on.
But being on the side of it, of standing up, my professors, genuinely, I could tell they wanted to help in the way of like, I want you to struggle with this information and then show that you did that, show that you have thought about it, and that you just have kind of dealt with the complexities and thought about interweaving connections.
So, I don't know. And I appreciated that part of it of like, okay, I can tell this is coming from a place of I want you to, to help understand this. And, I mean, we're always helping each other out. If someone, if we see somebody like blank stare, you know, a little whisper, it's this.
Jeremy
Yeah. You're not supposed to do that, but. Oh we, we know that you do. We know that you do.
Mari
Just kidding.
Jeremy
So, do you remember the first time you got called on? Who was the first person to call on you?
Mari
The first person to call on me, I think, was Professor Bates. I think it was contracts. I want to say. Oh, that's a lie. I volunteered for that.
Jeremy
Okay.
Mari
Oh, my gosh, he didn't even call on me. I raised my hand because he was like, we were doing a, a case called mistletoe. And he was like, who likes Christmas? And so, you know, obviously, I mean, I love Christmas. I'm going to raise my hand.
Jeremy
You're telling me you raised your hand when he said that? That is such a rookie mistake.
Mari
And very quickly, very quickly, I figured that out.
Jeremy
That is such a rookie mistake.
Mari
Right?
Jeremy
That only works on, on first quarter law students.
Mari
And guess what, it only worked on me specifically because I looked around. None of my classmates had their hand up. It was just me. And I was like; you guys are lying.
Like, there's no way I'm the only one who likes Christmas in here.
Jeremy
I love that.
Mari
I, I and, I was like, that's not, that's not even real. And he goes, oh, you're up then? And I was like, oh yeah, no, for sure.
Jeremy
Under those circumstances, they were all willing to hate Christmas.
Mari
Exactly. It's like suddenly I don't like it very much anymore.
Jeremy
What change do you see in yourself over this, you know, you're not quite a year now, but over this first academic year of law school?
Mari
Oh, that's a good question. I think I, so I really always was able to tell people, you are more than your grades, you are more than what you do. In the way of more than the value that you get back. That is assessing what success looks like. And here it is. It's grades in that way. I mean, understanding, can we be able to be competitive, make each other better? But I think I was always like, look, we are meant to do something more on this earth. We're meant to serve people. And I think that's that was something that I was so quick to be able to dish out when, when people would say, oh, you know, I didn't do so well on whatever, or I feel like I failed in this, or I didn't do my cold call the best that I could.
And I think I over the past year, have really been challenged of can I live it out myself? Can I tell that to myself that what I'm doing here, no matter what that success looks like? Bench markers, or grades, or do I when I sit down after cold call, do I feel good about it? Or do I feel whatever about being in this organization or being in this, having this opportunity?
I think it's more what do these mean for how I can serve people in the future. What does it mean for me to be someone in the law, that is, that is trying to live out my faith as well? And being able to balance, I think Baylor Law specifically creates such a wonderful space for that and understanding how I can just serve the Lord in this profession, for sure.
Jeremy
Yeah. Well, it's about, I think in part it's about remembering your why and your purpose when you inevitably hit the little speed bumps and all law students do. You know, I, I try to impress that upon students at orientation. Yeah. You know, you, they're going to be two winners of the moot court competition, and there's, there's 90 of you here in this room, you know, I mean, it's just not going to, it's not going to be everybody.
It's only, it's only a few. Everybody's going to have those setbacks. And I think remembering the why as you just referenced, your why is really important. Okay. You have roots in Waco, Texas.
Mari
I do.
Jeremy
What are those roots?
Mari
I grew up here until I was about eight. I, most of my family's here still. Me and my immediate family moved to the Dallas area, but I mean, we come back all the time.
Holidays, birthdays, all of my family genuinely is here. I always…
Jeremy
So, here's the thing. Was that a positive for you to coming to college then law school here? Or was it like I don’t…
Mari
Amazing, I'm so glad. Wanted to clarify. No, I, I do love Waco. And that's such a, honestly, it's a, it feels like a win personally. I don't know why. I take it very personally when people say, oh, I really love Waco when they've like the, my friends here, our friends in undergrad.
And I'm like, I think I'm part of that. Honestly, I, I have, in fact poured so much into this city. No, I'm kidding. But in the way of, oh, I feel so attached to Waco. And it's just very special that someone else gets to find it to be home too.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Mari
It takes a little bit sometimes, but it does. It does become home for people. And it's, I think that's so special. So, family for me. It was honestly something that I was like, I didn't look at Baylor to begin with. It wasn't my top choice. But the Lord led me here and it was such a blessing to be able to pour into my family too. And I guess, be with them, you know, outside of holidays and obligations of that nature.
So, I, I think it was, it was, it's been a positive. It's been such a positive. It's been so amazing to have family here and to be able to share my city with people.
Jeremy
I just want to point out you've you referred to Christmas as both something you love and an obligation in the same podcast.
Mari
Right? That's and that's a good point too.
Right? Now the Professor Bates has ruined it for me. Thank you. Thank you Professor Bates.
Jeremy
What is something about like, maybe, I don't know, a restaurant or a place or something about Waco that you think is some, one of your favorites, but maybe is not well known by students?
Mari
Oh, there are a couple. I have to bring people to Schmaltz always.
And that's I mean, that's a big one and people don't really know what that is. And so I honestly I try to gatekeep it a little bit, but that one…
Jeremy
This is a good answer by the way Mari.
Mari
I appreciate that.
Jeremy
This is a good answer, but it's a, it's actually a great answer.
Mari
Oh yes. I also love Ranchitos on Waco Drive, I, come on, I mean that you have to, you have to go there for some Mexican food, but that one's really good.
Also, slight plug to my family. Jesse's tortillas. Those are my cousins, and they have very good food.
Jeremy
On Clay?
Mari
Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah.
Jeremy
Great salsa too.
Mari
Great salsa, Their tamales, oh my goodness.
Jeremy
Okay. I understand you've maybe had, not challenge, but some spent some time navigating what you're going to do this summer. Like, how are you planning all that out? So, what are you going to do this summer? What's, what's going on? Do you know?
Mari
Yes. So, this summer I am currently going to spend the second half in Austin at actually a, well I'm hoping, I'm hoping, that should kind of work out, but that would be an, it's a trial firm, a trial firm, Scott Douglas McConnico if you are familiar.
Jeremy
I am.
Mari
Yes. And they're absolutely wonderful. I got… Andy McSwain is somebody I used to work with at Beard Kultgen, and he was amazing and connected me there. But that opportunity, I have a couple different things that I might be thinking about for the first half.
Jeremy
Anything in Waco?
Mari
That is also a good question.
So I… That depends. I would love to stay here. I think that'd be great. But I'm, I potentially, one of my old, bosses, he also he became a judge. And there he was like, hey, you have something here if you if you'd like. So, we'll think about that too.
Jeremy
Okay.
Mari
I mean, I yeah, it'd be a great opportunity.
Jeremy
Okay. What? I want you to think about a perspective Baylor student thinking about it. I mean, people who get into Baylor Law School, they have other law school options and so what would you tell them about what they should know about this place, the good and the bad and the ugly and all that.
Mari
Yes. This is such a great question.
I think, for Baylor Law specifically, for prospective student, understanding that you will be held to a standard of excellence in the way of every single person will push you to be your best, because we understand what the stakes are later on. But at the same time being able to form friendships and form relationships and mentorships between faculty and staff and students and then understanding what that looks like.
I think that is so, so special to see every, every single person that you meet will spend, I mean, they'll take the time to get to know you. They'll say hi in the hallway, they'll talk and see how they can help you, or how they can just kind of walk alongside you in your journey here.
But I think specifically too is understanding the why is necessary. And I, I have loved getting to meet so many people from so many different areas of life, so many different stages of life, ages and stages, in the way of we have parents and we have people who commute multiple hours a day for this. We have people who are just coming out of undergrad.
We have people who took a couple years to work or did something completely different, not related to the law. And I think that has been so wonderful to see that Baylor Law specifically tries to fle... This is for anyone. And if you have the drive and the passion to do this, I mean, this is for everyone.
And getting to, to see that and learn from people who are in the different stages and ages than me has been such a blessing. And so, I think for prospective students, if this is if law school is ever a hesitation, if it's ever a I don't know if I'm cut out for this, you 100% are, 100% are.
And Baylor Law will walk alongside you throughout the entire time. In those moments that you feel that you aren't.
Jeremy
Okay, we've come to the lightning round.
Mari
Oh, amazing.
Jeremy
Questions are silly, answers have to be short.
Mari
Perfect.
Jeremy
On an airplane window seat or aisle seat?
Mari
I gotta go aisle.
Jeremy
Do you plan everything or do you prefer to be spontaneous?
Mari
Oh, spontaneous.
Jeremy
Okay. You can only have one of these. Would it be the perfect playlist or the perfect, perfect parking spot?
Mari
Oh my goodness. Playlist.
Jeremy
Cooking or takeout?
Mari
Takeout.
Jeremy
Completely free day, free of responsibilities. How would you spend it?
Mari
Playing sports with my friends for sure.
Jeremy
Dropping those threes.
Mari
Exactly.
Jeremy
What is, what is a hobby you wish you had more time for?
Mari
Oh, honestly, probably reviewing movies, watching reviewing movies. I would love to do that. It's like letter box. Have you heard of Letter Box? I know this is Lightning Round, but…
Jeremy
It sounds like a profession.
Mari
It does sound like that's true. On the side I could do a little, you know.
Jeremy
Night owl or early bird?
Mari
Night owl.
Jeremy
Favorite way to celebrate good news?
Mari
With family and friends.
Jeremy
Favorite board game or card game?
Mari
Oh my gosh. Probably, does poker count? It's a card game.
Jeremy
That is a card game. If you were uncertain about that, I'd like to play poker with you. Favorite place to study?
Mari
Second floor library.
Jeremy
Okay, I understand you have a question or two for me.
Mari
I do, I do, so one's a little more serious. I'll start with that one.
Jeremy
Okay.
Mari
But I was just wondering, so when you're talking to people about Baylor Law. Because I'm sure you got to do that a lot, prospective students, alumni, you know, friends, family, that kind of thing. What would you say is the quality that you see in students, faculty and staff that you are most proud to share? And those can be different between the three of those.
Jeremy
But yeah, so faculty and staff, the thing that comes immediately to mind is that they all know why we're here. And so, I think I’ve certainly said this before. I don't have sort of if I've said it on the podcast, but I can, I can go to everyone in this building, faculty and staff and say, what's the number one thing around here?
And they would all give some version of it's the students. The students are the number one thing. I love that about our faculty and staff. And it, that that keeping mission and purpose in mind, it influences everything else that we do. For students, you've touched on a lot of what I admire about our students most, which is our students, overwhelmingly.
And I you know, I don't think this is unique to Baylor Law School, but it's certainly something I see in our students, and I'm very proud of it. They do hit those moments where they did not get the experience, the outcome that they wanted. They didn't win the moot court competition. They lost their trial in practice court.
They did not get the grade they wanted. They, the cold call didn't go the way they wanted it to. But it's the dust yourself off, get up and keep moving. That is the thing that I love to see in Baylor Law students. Because of all the qualities of a great lawyer, one of them has to be resilience. It has to be the ability to take a lickin’ and keep on tickin’.
And, and so I, I really like that. And especially when I see the student saying, sort of seem to be experience like, yeah, and I know I need to go through that. Right? I know I need to keep going. And then to recognize in retrospect that that made me better to have, have had that experience. Okay. You get a less serious one?
Mari
I do, I do so I was told also because of my, you know.
Jeremy
Yeah, your connections here?
Mari
Of course, my many, many connections that you love Star Wars.
Jeremy
I don't love every movie.
Mari
And that's fair. Neither do I, I support that. So, I was wondering what Star Wars character do you most identify with?
Jeremy
This is the greatest question ever asked on the podcast.
Mari
I try.
Jeremy
But you know I don't know that I really identify with any of them. I like, I like characters in Star Wars, but I don't like look at them and go, well, that's somebody I really want to be like. But I do like, I do like Darth Vader.
Mari
Amazing.
Jeremy
I like Darth.
Mari
I was hoping you would say that.
Jeremy
Yeah, yeah, I’m sure you were. Thanks Mari, this was great.
Mari
Thank you so much.
