Kaitlyn Charles: From Critical Care to Case Law
Kaitlyn Charles: From Critical Care to Case Law
From the neonatal intensive care unit to Baylor Law School, third-year student Kaitlyn Charles brings a rare perspective shaped by compassion, clarity, and the hard truths she learned as a NICU nurse. In this episode of Counseller’s Corner, Dean Jeremy Counseller talks with Kaitlyn about delivering difficult news, building emotional resilience, and how telling the truth with care is a skill every profession, especially the legal profession, demands.
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TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy
Welcome to another episode of Counseller’s Corner. I'm Jeremy Counseller, Dean of Baylor Law School, and I am pleased to be joined today by third year law student Kaitlyn Charles. Kaitlyn, how are you doing?
Kaitlyn
I'm doing well. How are you?
Jeremy
I'm good. Thanks for being on the podcast. Something that I'm really interested in knowing more about... It's my understanding that before you came to law school, you were a neonatal intensive care unit nurse. True?
Kaitlyn
That is correct. Yes.
Jeremy
Okay. Tell me about that work.
Kaitlyn
So, starting as a nurse, I immediately went into the neonatal ICU. That was just an area of interest for me. And I really loved it. It was a very special place. Very much developed my, like, love and passion for nursing there. It was such a privilege to get to be with families during what should be such an exciting time - The birth of their new baby.
That quickly turned into one of the hardest times and so, I always felt like it was such a calling and a privilege to get to be there and walk those parents through that experience. And then from neonatal ICU, I then went to pediatric cardiac ICU and that was the bulk of my nursing career.
Jeremy
I would imagine that in that role, there are times when you have to tell people things that are very hard to hear.
Kaitlyn
Yes.
Jeremy
Tell parents things that are very hard to hear. Lawyers have to do that too.
Kaitlyn
Yes.
Jeremy
Your thoughts on that? Like, how do you adjust to that? How do you deliver that sort of news effectively or how do you do that?
Kaitlyn
I think it really, I think there's no one-size-fits-all in getting to know the families individually. And kind of learning how to approach those things with them individually was a big learning part of that, I guess. And through that, you could kind of tailor like, okay, I know this family because I've worked with them or I've built this relationship with them, and I feel like I'm able to share this information in a way that is going to be as well-received as it can be.
Jeremy
Yeah.
It's got to be the truth.
Kaitlyn
Yes, yes.
Jeremy
It's got to be the truth.
Kaitlyn
Yeah. And so, I mean, it's, it's certainly hard, but again, I felt like it was a calling to be that person to help process that information with them.
Jeremy
Yeah. So, you've got this great career. Why go to law school?
You probably ask yourself that sometimes.
Kaitlyn
Sometimes I do, especially as I'm nearing PC. I really loved what I did. My job in the cardiac ICU was definitely my favorite, but also the most difficult. And I knew that going into it, I knew that it didn't think emotionally that was going to be like a long term fit for me. COVID changed a lot of things with that.
And experienced a lot of emotional burnout through that. But I wanted a job that I could still do the things that I loved as a core, like Critical Care Nurse. I loved getting to stand up and advocate for my patients and their families during rounds. I loved getting to work with a team and figure out like, all of these different components and what's going to be best for this situation because it's different for every child and every patient and every family.
And was looking at other nursing jobs, but I was actually looking at some legal nursing jobs and realized that the attorney's job sounded a lot more interesting and a lot more like the path that I wanted. And so, my parents are both attorneys, so it wasn't a complete like random 180 shift, but I decided I was going to go to law school.
Jeremy
Do you foresee somehow combining your legal education with your medical training and experience in the future?
Kaitlyn
I do. I would really like to do that. I'm learning that the medical side of things has so many other areas that it touches on with law versus just people immediately think like, oh, medical malpractice. And there's so many other areas. But I'm not 100% sure what that looks like.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Kaitlyn
I like the idea of being a federal prosecutor and doing, you know, some of, like, health care fraud and abuse.
Those types of cases sound really interesting to me, too. But also, medical malpractice or maybe in-house counsel. So, there's a lot of ways I could do that.
Jeremy
There are a lot of connect, connection points there. You're right. And so, I think lots of, lots of opportunities. You mentioned this, but both of your parents are lawyers. I think they're both Baylor lawyers. Am I right about that?
Kaitlyn
Yes, they are.
Jeremy
Okay. So, I'm curious what they told you about Baylor Law School going in, like, advice or,
Kaitlyn
Growing up, I have heard great things about Baylor Law School. Growing up in the East Texas area, so many of their other attorneys that they work with were Baylor lawyers. There's just a very large community there. I didn't consider anywhere else. Like Baylor Law was the only place I applied and that was probably…
Jeremy
Couldn't go home for the holidays if you'd…
Kaitlyn
Probably not. So. But even just hearing about, like, practice from them and then working with newer attorneys, my mom gave this example of one time she was in a courtroom, and she saw this new attorney and knew, just because of the small community, that she was newer, and just how confident and organized and well prepared she was without even knowing this attorney, my mom was like, that's a Baylor lawyer.
And, turns out she had just graduated from Baylor Law School within like the last year.
Jeremy
And I hear that sort of story frequently all the time. And it's the thing that it's something that makes us really proud to hear those kinds of stories. Anyway, go ahead, I interrupted you.
Kaitlyn
Oh, but I mean, that's, that's the reason that was the education that I wanted. That was the practical experience that I wanted.
Jeremy
Well, we're very glad to have you here, so I'm glad you putting all your eggs in this basket worked, worked out in terms of going to law school. One of the things that you, one role that you have, and I've worked with you, with you in this role is you're on the SBA, I think, executive committee. Right?
Talk about what the SBA does and in particular, your work on the SBA.
Kaitlyn
So, the SBA,
Jeremy
Student Bar Association
Kaitlyn
Student Bar Association gets, has the privilege to, be kind of the connecting voice between the rest of the student body and faculty, staff, about things that are going really well, things that they have questions about, things we want to improve, that kind of thing. And it's it's really interesting to get to see more of the inside workings of higher up and how decisions are made, how things change at the law school through that experience.
That was fun to see, but it was. It was really unique position, getting to be like kind of the in between for the rest of the student body and…
Jeremy
Yeah.
Kaitlyn
faculty.
Jeremy
Well, you know, the, the SBA, particularly the executive committee, represents the student body in interactions with the administration. I have lunch with the SBA twice a year. And we, I mean, it's a, we talk about real issues and we, we interact in a way that's, I think, one - highly professional. I, it always makes me proud because I'm sitting down with 4, 5, 6 law students.
You've been, you've been one of those. I'm like, oh, I'm dealing with lawyers here. You know, it's like sitting down with lawyers and they're, they're my students. They're our students. And it's just, it's so great. And you all are so professional and so prepared, and you make a reasoned case for the things you want or the things you want to change.
And I'm, I always walk away and, and as you know, I'll say, yeah, we can do that or I'll look into that or no, we can't do that. And, but I always walk away thinking, man, they're going to be good lawyers. I mean, it's like I'm there with equals, you know, and it's just, I, I love those lunches and I love working with the SBA because it's, you know, we're teaching you how to be professional.
And you go to the meetings like, yeah, it's working. These, these are, these are great people. I also understand that you were horseback rider.
Kaitlyn
I was, yes.
Jeremy
Okay. Tell me about that. You didn't get bucked off or anything, did you? This is not going to be a…
Kaitlyn
No. It's, it's, there's no, like, traumatic ending.
Jeremy
Okay, good, good.
Kaitlyn
Just more like law school. And that's expensive. Yeah. Yeah, it's something I started when I was three, and it turned into a really big sport for me. I competed basically my entire time growing up.
Jeremy
So, what kind of competitions? There's more than, more than one different sort of horseback riding competition. What were you doing?
Kaitlyn
You know, I did English. I did like the hunter jumpers, and dressage, and then eventing, which has three different phases.
Jeremy
Did you do equestrian in undergrad?
Kaitlyn
I did not.
Jeremy
Okay.
Kaitlyn
No. I, I kind of thought about it, but they, they compete on a different circuit than really the type of competition I was doing. And so, that wasn't going to be, like, the best fit for me. But I competed through high school, took a break during college, when I was in nursing school, I was able to go and take lessons and just have a little, like one once a week break from school, getting to do that again.
But that was my graduation gift to myself. When I graduated from undergrad, I bought a horse and got back into competing.
Jeremy
And where is this horse now?
Kaitlyn
This horse,
Jeremy
Don't tell me it died.
Kaitlyn
He did not.
Jeremy
Okay.
Kaitlyn
He is with a group of little girls that love and dote on him. And he is living his best life.
Jeremy
He's in horse heaven. Good. I mean, but alive -
Kaitlyn
Yes.
Jeremy
In horse heaven. Okay. I know you're from East Texas. Your family's in East Texas. Are you going to go back to East Texas after law school?
Kaitlyn
They would love for me to do that.
Jeremy
I know, that's why I'm asking. Your dad asked me to ask. No. I'm kidding, he didn’t.
Kaitlyn
I, I'm not opposed to it. I'm not. I'm not sure that that is where I will immediately go back.
Jeremy
Okay. You, you are like my own daughter. Quite frustrating in how close you hold your cards to the vest about what you're going to do. I, I, I'm kidding. I think wherever you go, it'll be great for you. And you'll get to spend time with your family whenever, whenever y’all want. I think that's great. Okay. We have now come to the Lightning Round.
The questions are silly. Your answers have to be short. What's the last book you read for fun?
Kaitlyn
“Funny Story” by Emily Henry.
Jeremy
Okay. Does pineapple belong on pizza?
Kaitlyn
Absolutely not.
Jeremy
That is the correct answer. Finally. Favorite song?
Kaitlyn
Oh, gosh, I don't know.
Why is it when you ask that, like, every song, it's like, I've never heard music before.
Jeremy
I can't, I can't ever think of song titles.
Kaitlyn
Yeah.
Jeremy
Look, I know the song. I can sing the lyrics if I hear the song, but I can't think of song titles.
Kaitlyn
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy
The answer is “Tangerine” by Led Zeppelin. Okay. What? What was your favorite movie as a kid?
Kaitlyn
Gosh, as a kid, what did I watch a lot? I'm going to say “Legally Blond”.
Jeremy
Okay. Best way to eat a potato?
Kaitlyn
French fries. Is that an answer?
Jeremy
Yeah, that’s acceptable. Favorite fast-food restaurant?
Kaitlyn
Probably Whataburger.
Jeremy
What meal do you make for yourself most often?
Kaitlyn
I'm going to be honest. I don't really cook a lot because of law school. I'm bad at that. Probably like a good comfort, like mac and cheese or pasta meal.
Jeremy
Okay. Is a hotdog a sandwich?
Kaitlyn
No.
Jeremy
Correct. Would you ever go on an outdoor survival competition show like Survivor type show?
Kaitlyn
I think I'd consider it because I don't think I'd last very long. And then I could say I had the experience.
Jeremy
If you could compete in an Olympic sport, what would it be?
Kaitlyn
Ice skating. Figure skating.
Jeremy
Good. Okay, I understand you have a question for me.
Kaitlyn
I do. So, over the vast roles that you have had in your career...
Jeremy
I thought you were going to my vast career. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm so old. Thank you, Kaitlin, for pointing that out.
Kaitlyn
No, just you've held many different roles. When you think back to, like, the earlier stages of your career, what is a moment or experience that you had that you would say is, was kind of like a career shaping, career defining lesson that you learned that, like, still influences your work, your perspective today.
Jeremy
Yeah. Well, I've been asked a similar question on the podcast, but it wasn't the same question but a similar question. And I think my answer is, is the same, though, which is the judge I clerked for told me when either I or my co-clerk asked him, what's the advice you would give to a young attorney? And his advice was, love God and love your spouse.
And so that's kind of been my, you know, North Star to a certain extent. I'm not saying I've pursued that perfectly or even well, but it definitely stuck with me. And it's something I think about as kind of a first principle. Another thing, just at another point in my career, which would probably, probably be totally uninteresting to you and the entire listenership of this podcast, all six of those people, is when I was applying for tenure here.
So, this is like 15 or so years ago, one of the faculty members here, who was in charge of kind of our tenure process, I said to him, you know, I just want to show them that I've earned tenure. So, I've tenure, you know, it's like five-and-a-half-year process. And he laughed. And he said, tenure is lifetime employment.
You can't show anybody you've earned that in five-and-a-half years. Which I thought, yeah, that's true. And he said, you've got to show that you're going to earn it for the rest of your career. You know that you're the person who's going to earn it for the rest of your career. And I think that translates somewhat to young lawyers going into a law firm is, you know, show them that you are an owner even before you are.
Show them that you're going to earn partnership or whatever status you're aiming for over the life of your career. And I think that has, that was good advice. And, the other thing someone else told me is, tenure only matters if you don't get it. Well, yeah, that's right, because it's not like once you get it, you know, you walk into the school and everyone bows down before you. Just they don't, nobody cares.
But if you don't get it, of course, that you would, you would care deeply. But those are some things. But, but for me, the, the main thing is love God, and love your, love your spouse. That was the best advice I got.
Lots of other stuff along the way. It's so important to have good mentors, you know. Hitch your wagon to people who you can help but can help you. And, with both, you know, both professionally, but also with wise counsel and have your best interests at heart. I think that's really important. Kaitlyn, thank you so much.
Kaitlyn
Thank you for having me.
Jeremy
It's been a great conversation. Appreciate you.
