Deals, Decisions, and Life-Defining Moments with Jared Miller
Deals, Decisions, and Life-Defining Moments with Jared Miller
In this episode of Counseller’s Corner, Dean Jeremy Counseller sits down with third-year law student Jared Miller, a CPA who holds two master’s degrees, is a husband and a father, to talk about carving a strategic path to transactional practice. Jared shares why he left a successful accounting career with a Big Four accounting firm for law school, how Baylor Law School’s Professional Tracks, Special Distinctions, and transactional competitions prepared him for real-world dealmaking. He also emphasizes how prior professional experience can transform abstract legal concepts into concrete business realities.
And then there’s that story: Jared shares a memorable story about negotiating in an American Bar Association mergers and acquisitions competition mere hours after the birth of his daughter.
The conversation offers insight into preparation, perspective, and the realities of navigating high-stakes professional moments alongside major life events.
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TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy
This is Jeremy Counseller, Dean of Baylor Law School. Welcome to another edition of Counseller’s Corner. And I am very pleased today to be joined by my guest, seventh-quarter law student Jared Miller. Jared, how are you?
Jared
Dean Counseller, I'm thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me.
Jeremy
Good. So, tell me you’re, I said you're a seventh quarter law student, which I think is correct. Are you…? Tell me about the courses you're taking right now.
Jared
So, this quarter is a strictly elective quarter for me. So, I'm finishing out special distinctions. I'm doing two special distinctions, one in business planning and the second in estate planning and administration. So, I'm taking the remaining courses left to fulfill those requirements.
Jeremy
Well, tell us just a little bit more about the special distinctions and what role they play here in our curriculum.
Jared
Yeah, the way I like to think of them, and this is how other people describe them as well, is that they're really representative of, say, a college major. So, it's, it's a concentration of courses that are tailored to an intended practice area. So, I intend to practice in a transactional setting, specifically mergers and acquisitions. And, so these courses are tailored to support me whenever I go, into my big boy job.
Jeremy
Your big boy job. Well, and just, just to say, no one has to do a special distinction, but they're there for you if you want them. And they, they serve as sort of a guide into the sort of courses you need to take that particular practice area. And they can be, they can be very helpful.
Jared
So, I originally was an accountant. I did a master's in accounting at Texas A&M, and then I worked professionally for…
Jeremy
One of your two masters degrees.
Jared
Degrees. Oh, yes, sir, the second one was a master's in business administration from the University of Iowa. But that was, the first master's degree was to qualify me to be a certified public accountant in the state of Texas. And I accepted employment, post A&M, at PWC (Price Waterhouse Cooper) doing international tax. That lasted less than two years.
And then I transitioned into a position at KPMG, also one of the big four accounting firms doing corporate finance advisory. So, I saw both sides of the coin, both compliance based and advisory based within the accounting industry prior to coming to law school. And those were very, professional workplaces. So, it was it was a legitimate job at billable hour expectations and, you know, client, client facing in a lot of ways.
Jeremy
So here you, here you are. You've, you're, before you ever go to law school, highly educated, undergraduate degree, two masters degrees. You're a CPA. You've got a great job at a great accounting firm. What makes you say, I want to change my track record and go spend three years in law school to become a lawyer?
Jared
Yes, that is a great question because the accounting profession does offer upward mobility as far as professional development and growth. I like to think of the difference between accounting and law. Accountants are trained to rigorously measure and classify transactions and attorneys. Their role is really, planning the transactions. I mean, they're, they are more of the strategists.
They're making sure that business objectives are carried out through contract. And it's, it's, it's the same side of the, the, it's the same, I guess, objectives at the end of the day. But the, the direction of the work is, is different. And I was more interested in kind of the upstream part of the process instead of accounting for transactions.
I actually wanted to help, plan for, and structure transactions and being an attorney really gives me that opportunity, where accounting kind of focuses on the back end.
Jeremy
Yeah. So, for, for listeners who aren't as familiar with Baylor Law School, we, we have what's what the students refer to as the transactional quarter, which is a quarter of trust and estates, business organizations, tax, some transactional drafting. Really, they're foundational courses for those who want to do the sort of work that you want to do and take the sort of elective, advanced courses that you're taking.
I'm wondering from your perspective as someone who has worked for one of the largest accounting firms, you are a CPA. How has your legal education complemented, or maybe vice versa, your, your CPA training experience complemented your legal education?
Jared
Absolutely. So, I guess what I'm taking courses in, in law school, a lot of the concepts can come across as abstract. My background allows me to associate these abstract concepts to real economic realities of business. I, I, it's almost like when I read a contract or provision, I can almost think through the provision to how it will impact the balance sheet of the company.
And it helps me make more sense out of how, how these incentives of business owners really are carried out through the legal side of things, if I know how they're making money. And I think that it's helped me, especially in courses like securities regulation, for example. I mean, before law school, I had spent 6 or 7 years thinking about securities and, the 34 act and why investor protection is important.
And then when I come to law school, all I'm doing is filling in the gaps. I already have the framework in my mind of why these things happen, the way that they happen. And then law school kind of paints the canvas, to fill in, the very technical specifics of how those things actually, actually happen.
Jeremy
I think what you said is a part of what you said is a, is an insight that might benefit people who listen to the podcast, who are thinking about going to law school. They're out there, they've got a career. Maybe law school's always been in the back of their mind, and it's a big decision to go to law school because it's, it's time if, if nothing else, it's time and there's a cost to it.
I mean, there may be a tuition expense, which is certainly an opportunity cost for someone like you who is out there earning a good living already. But one thing that, just my observation, is it's more commonplace now for people to come to law school, not straight out of undergrad, but with two, four, six, eight years of, of professional experience in some other, and in some other field or, or profession and the other, but the thing that I think it helps when you have that other experience is exactly what you said. It's not an abstraction. These things, there's so many things that might seem abstract to someone unless you've got some hands-on experience in that area. So, I think that's a really great thing that you bring to Baylor Law School and to your, to your education.
Okay. I want you to tell me about how you, because my understanding is, I want to get to this in some detail, but my understanding is you have a family.
Jared
Yes, sir.
Jeremy
You have a daughter?
Jared
Yes, sir.
Jeremy
And partner or wife?
Jared
Yes, sir. Wife.
Jeremy
Okay.
How do you balance all that? How do you balance law school? Because your daughter is young, couple months old. Not quite?
Jared
Less than two at this point.
Jeremy
How do you, how do you manage it all?
Jared
Well, thankfully, I have a very supportive spouse, and, her profession… So, she's a registered dietitian, and so she's not working 12 hour days or, you know, she's, she's not client facing in a traditional sense, I guess, patient facing in some ways. And she has been very supportive, and, I guess my ambitions to pursue a legal education, to spend the hours that I needed to, to make the good grades on the exams and to, to put myself into a position for career success.
And so, if it really, if it wasn't for her, it would be a lot more difficult. I'd be eating the prepared HEB oven meals. I mean, there'd be a lot of differences that fortunately my, my life situation just keeps me from having to face.
Jeremy
Tell me. And thanks to your wife for that. We're glad that she's, she's doing that stuff. And, I hope it, I hope it pays off for her. I think you'll have to make sure that that's true. Tell me about - you have participated in some interscholastic competitions, in the ABA MAC Cup. What is the ABA MAC Cup?
Jared
So, the MAC Cup is, the mergers and acquisitions committee, they, of the ABA, they host an annual competition, where schools will put together teams, and then they'll be, randomly matched against other schools to negotiate, an M&A deal. And so, this year, we had a competition to where myself and Justin Garber were partners on a, on a transaction where we were matched against different schools and we essentially negotiated it. It was, it was a random order, kind of like moot court.
You know, one day you’re buyer and the next time you might be a seller. And so, we negotiated these, these, these deals, through Zoom, about, an hour, 70-minute Zoom mock negotiations.
Jeremy
So, I think a lot of people are familiar with mock trial competitions, which simulate a trial, moot court competition, simulated appellate argument. What is becoming more commonplace and what we are fully embracing here at the law school are the transactional competitions. Talk about what role you feel participation in that team, on that team played in your education.
Jared
Well, the, the transactional competitions, I believe, have been absolutely crucial, to prepare me to go into the, into, practice. So, I that was my fourth negotiation competition in an M&A context. One of the other greatest opportunities I think the school offers the transactional students is that transactional practice lab, which is a, inter school competition where you negotiate a very similar buy sell agreement and, when I, took advantage of these opportunities, I found myself even better prepared when I started my internship this last summer.
I mean, a lot of the terminology and vernacular was already embedded because I had already had repetitions of practicing drafting these agreements. And so, these competitions, they're completely extracurricular, right? They're not required to graduate. But it's an opportunity that you can build a skill set that will actually translate to when you get out into the world and you're actually doing these things for real with tens or hundreds of million dollars on the line.
Jeremy
Yeah. And it's what you said. It's the repetition, you do it. And I think it goes back to something I mentioned earlier. It helps people go from the abstract to the concrete.
Jared
Absolutely.
Jeremy
Those competitions, whether it's mock trial, moot court, or transactional law competition, it's, it's just a, it can be a fabulous and important part of your education.
There's just no doubt about it. Okay. Now the ABA MAC cup, who coached that team?
Jared
So that was Alan Page.
Jeremy
Alan Page, okay. The great Alan Page and you, I take it you prepare for weeks and weeks to get ready for this competition. What happens to you on the day that you are set to compete?
Jared
Yes, sir. So that was actually a very, torrential 12 hours, I would say. So, my wife wakes me up the night before and she says it's time. And so, we, we rush her to the hospital.
Jeremy
It's time. And this has a particular meaning because your your wife is pregnant when she says this.
Jared
Read in context. She's nine months pregnant. And she wakes me up and she says it's time. And so, it's like, okay, let's go. So, we grab the bags and we get her to the hospital and, yeah, two in the morning, the day of the competition. So, this was October 25th was when we had the competition.
And at 2 a.m., Ava Lynn Miller came into this or, on into this world kicking and screaming and, I had a competition that day at 10 a.m.. And so thankfully, we were okay.
Jeremy
Okay, okay. What I want to know, not to pry into your marriage, but I've got to ask about the conversation between you and your wife about this competition. You're supposed to be in eight hours after she gives birth.
Jared
That's right. So, my wife, depending on how that situation played out, we were very blessed that it played out in a in a way that, that Ava was healthy. My wife was healthy. Ava was bundled up and, you know, she was she was sleeping. And if it had been a more, dramatic situation, I think that my duties as a, as a husband and as a father would have definitely, kicked in there, as well.
Jeremy
As well they should have.
Jared
As they should have, but I, I it was it was I figured that at the time, I needed to leave for the competition and everything would be okay for about an hour and a half. And that's exactly how long I was gone from the hospital. I mean, I was I left the hospital 15 minutes to home and get ready.
An hour competition, 15 minutes to get back to the hospital. And, during that time, I, we negotiated and we actually won that competition. But all of the work, all of the, I guess the anxiety, the, performance anxiety that kind of comes along with competitions that, that wasn't a problem because we had spent, as you said, weeks and months prepared.
I mean, we knew this deal called we knew the, the provisions that we were going to be negotiating, and we just had to come in and execute.
Jeremy
And you got what really matters waiting for you back at the hospital. So…
Jared
Yes, sir.
Jeremy
It puts things into perspective.
Jared
Yes, sir. And, and, and, that, that, that ordeal, I would say it was, it was just, as you say, it puts everything into perspective because now there's a family, there's obligations. There's, there's, I guess,
there's, there's a reason now greater than just an ambition.
Jeremy
Well, it's, it's one example of trying to strike a balance, you know, professional obligations, family obligations. I think you, you did a great job. And again, your wife is there to support you and sort of give you the blessing. You can go for an hour and a half and, and get back, I think I think that's fantastic.
So, tell me, you are now two, two quarters away from graduation. What do you plan to do after graduation?
Jared
So, after graduation, I've accepted an offer to a firms, corporate and transactional practice group in Houston, Texas, where, the main focus of that practice is going to be on mergers and acquisitions. And so, I am going to do essentially. Exactly. What I wanted to do, after, after grad, which is great. I, I came into law school wanting to be an M&A lawyer, and that is the offer that I accepted.
And so I'll, start as a first year associate in October after my bar exam results come back.
Jeremy
That's sounds like a great fit for you and a great hire for the firm in Houston. We have come now to the lightning round. Okay. The questions are silly. Your answers have to be short. What's your go to comfort food?
Jared
Mac and cheese.
Jeremy
Would you rather take a road trip across the United States or backpacked through Europe?
Jared
Road trip.
Jeremy
Big cities or small towns?
Jared
Small towns.
Jeremy
What's the last show you binge watched?
Jared
Landman.
Jeremy
If you could. Well, you may just answer this. If you could cameo in any TV show, which would it be?
Jared
Oh, goodness. Probably “The Night Agent”. The CIA guy that does cool stuff
Jeremy
Is cereal a soup?
Jared
Probably by Webster's, I would say it's a soup. Just like a hot dog is a sandwich, which is also controversial.
Jeremy
Do you think breakfast should be served all day?
Jared
Absolutely not. I would say breakfast should be served sparingly, and not even every day. I skip breakfast.
Jeremy
Very interesting. Interesting take. Very strident. What's one thing you've always wanted to learn but haven't yet?
Jared
Probably Russian or, you know, Mandarin or some exotic language.
Jeremy
Would you rather have unlimited free flights or unlimited free meals at restaurants?
Jared
Unlimited free meals.
Jeremy
Would you rather never have to sleep or never have to eat? And you’ve got to pick one. You have to pick one of the two.
Jared
Well, eating is fun for me, so I would say never sleeping.
Jeremy
You have to live either without music or without movies. Which do you choose?
Jared
Without, without movies. I'm an avid musician.
Jeremy
What do you play?
Jared
Piano and percussion.
Jeremy
Very good. Yes, sir. Okay, I understand you may have a question for me.
Jared
I do, sir. So, you have mentioned that if you had have been an attorney, you would have been a history professor. So, my question for you is if you were to write a historical nonfiction book over any event, person or place, what would it be about and why?
Jeremy
So, I have mentioned that history professor was something I was occasionally interested in, particularly when law school got hard. But like, I, you know, be easier to be a history professor. I'm glad I didn't go that route, although that would be a great life. I also wanted to be a long-haul truck driver. I mention, I've mentioned, I mentioned that on the podcast before.
Jeremy
Too long-haul truck driver, because I used to study at a truck stop in law school, and I actually said to a truck driver, say, man, I envy you. I think I want to be a long-haul trucker. And he's like, kid, stay in school. And I'm glad I followed his advice. I think if I were going to write, I would write over…
I would pick a Native American tribe and write the pre-Columbian history of that tribe, because I, just not because it hasn't been done, but just because I think that's a part of American history that doesn't get a lot of, certainly haven't, I haven't been exposed to, to a ton of it. Although I'm starting a book right now that deals with that.
So that's something that interests me.
Jared
Is there a particular region northeast US, southern around Florida, the west?
Jeremy
I would go to the west.
Jared
The west.
Jeremy
The west. Yeah, I would, I would go to the west. When I was a kid. We would travel and visit some of those sites and I think it's kind of stuck with me.
Jared
Okay.
Jeremy
I have a lot of unanswered questions.
Jared
Yes, sir.
Jeremy
Jared, thanks a lot. This has been great. Appreciate you and good luck in the future. You're going to do great things.
Jared
Thank you. I appreciate it.
