From the Basketball Court to the Courtroom with Marley Rokas
Counseller's Corner - Season 2, Episode 18:
What does it look like to find your place in law school when your path does not fit a template? Baylor Law School 2L and student ambassador Marley Rokas shares her journey from college basketball at Sul Ross State to Baylor Law and the lessons athletics taught her about pressure, preparation, and persistence.
Along the way, she brings the lighter moments too, from intramural basketball to Waco life with her grandmother and an online grocery order that did not go as planned. Come for the stories, stay for the reassurance that you can belong here.
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TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy
Welcome to another edition of Counseller’s Corner. I'm Jeremy Counseller, Dean of Baylor Law School, and today I am joined by second year law student Marley Rokas. Marley, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?
Marley
Thank you. I’m doing really well.
Jeremy
Yeah. So, tell us a little bit about your path to law school, where you're from, where you went to school, and how you decided to come to law school and Baylor Law School in particular?
Marley
Well, I didn't really solidify that choice till I got to college, but I knew I wanted to do something where I could be a leader. I was always looked at as the person that people came to for guidance, and I was like, how can I make this into your career in high school? And so, I was like, maybe, maybe I'll be a lawyer.
But I from San Antonio, I and I went to Veterans Memorial High School. It's very new. It was getting built when I was there. And so, I'm probably one of two people who went into the legal profession from that school. And then I was graduating, and it was during Covid time, and I was looking. Basketball was my main priority back then as well as school.
And I got recruited to Sul Ross State University. And so I...
Jeremy
To play basketball.
Marley
To play basketball.
Jeremy
Okay. What position did you play?
Marley
I, whatever they needed me. I was very much a team player in that regard, and I played everything from a small forward to a post. I, I'm 5’ 11”, so I'm on the bigger side of female athletes. And so, and every time someone asked me, they're like, oh, you must play basketball. And I was like, yes, you got it correct.
Jeremy
Do you play law league intermural basketball?
Marley
I do. And that was a journey for me as well. And so after that, I decided that I wanted to pursue law in college, and I had a great faculty and staff that helped me through that process. And then I ended up here, which I'm super thankful for.
Jeremy
Yeah, back to this law league basketball. Are you, like, highly recruited to join the teams as a collegiate basketball player?
Marley
My first year of law school, not a lot of people knew that I came from a basketball background, and so I was just happy to join any team. This was the first time that I ever got to play a rec sport, that of the sport that I played. And I found a team, me and my friends, we made a little misfit team and we just had fun.
It was a little bit of a learning curve for a lot of our male colleagues in that league. And first game…
Jeremy
What did they have to learn?
Marley
Not to give me five feet and I will shoot it in front of your face. I think my first game...
Jeremy
Like they're playing off of you, way off of you.
Marley
I had like 15 points out of like 20 points that we scored. And that was definitely, definitely a learning curve for them. And this year, as the second year, they were like being new and they're like, okay, you need to watch out for her. And why is this girl, like double teaming me in rec?
Jeremy
Punish them for their arrogance. Punish them for their arrogance. That's great.
Marley
Yeah. No, it was fun. And now we're in our volleyball season. And so, it's just something fun that we can do that's not school related.
Jeremy
Yeah. It's good to get out there and see sweat. Yeah. See the sun. See people when you're not studying or walking through the halls of the law school. Yeah.
Marley
It's like I'm not used to seeing these people outside of these four corners.
Jeremy
Exactly, exactly. It's a, it's a healthy thing to do. So, you, we've had other college athletes on the podcast before, and I'm wondering how, what you, how your experience or the skills you developed as a college athlete have helped you or maybe hindered you in law school? How does that translate to law school?
Marley
Student athletes specifically? I think my biggest advantage from that is my time management. I was used to having to study on a bus, study during our men's game, have my headphones in at full blast and do both and just get stuff done during the little time I had. And so, I'm usually one of the first out of my friend groups to, like, have my outlines done and have my flashcards done.
And I'm like, because I would go, go, go. Any time you have a spare minute, I was using it. And so that was definitely something that benefited me coming from that type of lifestyle.
Jeremy
You have a personal connection, I understand it, through your mom to Baylor University. Am I right about that?
Marley
I do. She came here in the 90s and she was on the women's basketball team.
Jeremy
Really? Okay. Did she also play? Is she also tall? Like you?
Marley
She was very happy when I finally passed her up because she was like, I'm finally the short one in my family. And so she is tall, but I am just a slightly taller.
Jeremy
Little bit taller.
Marley
Yes.
Jeremy
Okay. And how did your mom feel about you going to Baylor Law School, given that she went to Baylor?
Marley
Well.
Marley
Growing up, like I came to the Baylor basketball camps. I got an award from Kim Mulkey for, I think it was like Miss Hustle or something. So, Baylor's always been in the family, and I always thought, like, somehow, like, I would get here. And then I went to Sul Ross, and I was like, yeah, Baylor's not in my cards.
And then when I decided to go to law school and I was like, I applied to Baylor. I was like, yeah, this ain't going to happen, but we'll see. And then I got the acceptance letter and I was like, oh, like, this could be reality. Like, I thought that me coming Baylor was long gone. And then all my family was like, yeah, it was meant to be.
And I'm lucky enough to have family in the Waco area. And I get to live with my grandmother, so...
Jeremy
You live with your grandmother?
Marley
I do.
Jeremy
Oh, I think that's wonderful.
Marley
Yeah, I’m one of, I think, like three that I know that live with a family member or grandparent and it's very much a benefit. I have a backyard, I have some company. And then free rent’s always great.
Jeremy
Yeah. What do you do to repay your grandmother's kindness for letting you live with her for free?
Marley
I think it's been a good benefit for both of us.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Marley
I get to share my life with her, have a deeper connection with her, and she gets to see me way more often. We've also had a lot of weddings in the family, so being able to help her travel places as well. And I'm the official grocery shopper because.
Jeremy
So, you buy the groceries for you and your grandmother.
Marley
Most of the time. Yes. Yeah, because she does the online shopping. And so, she'll ask for a jar of peanut butter and then get like the 50 gallon thing.
Jeremy
So that is a hard thing about the online shopping is the sizes. You know, I don't always check the, double check the sizes. Yeah, I've got a can of green beans the size of a five-gallon bucket in my pantry. I don't know what I'll ever do with it.
Marley
Yeah. We've gotten that many times.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Marley
So, I, on Mondays after class, I head straight there and that's my like HEB time to go against the crowds.
Jeremy
Yeah, so. But you're doing the online shopping or you're going in?
Marley
I'm going in.
Jeremy
You're going in.
Marley
I'm very much in-person shopper. And we, we got, she did the online and said we're like, yeah, we need to...
Jeremy
You need to send that person into the store and that's you. Okay.
Marley
Like, we have a lot of faith, but our faith is kind of rocked by some of the stuff we’ve gotten.
Jeremy
Yeah. I'm wondering if your grandmother, like, if you express, you know, stress or this or that or the other thing, if she ever gives you any perspective on things, that's helpful?
Marley
Oh, definitely. She loves sharing her opinions. And so, I tried to, I think my first class, like she had, she was talking about something, and then I had to, like, go through the entire history of our Constitution and Articles of Confederation. And I was like, man, like only a law student would be doing this to their grandmother right now.
But she, she liked it. And we have really good conversations. So that's definitely something and unique experience.
Jeremy
I think. I'm glad I learned that about you. I love that for you, and I love that for your grandmother. I think that's fantastic. So, you serve at the law school as a student ambassador, and my understanding of that role is you take prospective students who might who are interested in law school, and you sort of give them a tour of the facility and you answer their questions. Do I have that about right?
Marley
Yes. And we do things like panels, event days.
Jeremy
What are the most common questions that prospective students ask?
Marley
The common questions are probably all the stuff that you can't read off of the website. So how safe do you feel coming in and out of the building? How are your professors? What's your favorite class? What are you looking into for your own legal career?
Jeremy
Why was your answer the Civil Procedure course that I teach, when they ask you what's your favorite class was?
Marley
Like, right now? I'm afraid to answer the question.
Jeremy
It's a, No, go ahead and answer it. I'm, obviously it's a loaded question. What?
Marley
Yeah. I'm sorry.
Jeremy
I think we're going to need to get another guest on the podcast. I don't know if we can continue now Marley. No. I'm kidding. So, so. And what's your approach to answering those questions?
Marley
I always will be honest in every question that I have. People don't want you to sugar-coat things. They want to know how it really is. And law school's hard. And so, there's also other aspects and factors that go into your education besides just what you get in the classroom. And so I like to emphasize the great things about what you can do with Baylor opportunities.
I'm part of some of the clinics here on campus. I like to showcase different student orgs, and then just the people. I feel like that's one of the best aspects of our school. It's just the people here. And so, I like to showcase that because you can't read that off of a website.
Jeremy
Yeah. If, if a student, maybe you've had this question, what's the best thing about Baylor Law School? What would you say?
Marley
Definitely the people. And from professors to the students here, I've been able to amass a very great friend group. And all of our professors, they really care. I came from a v very small college where I had four people in my class, and so when I got here, I was like, oh my goodness, how am I going to have a relationship with these professors?
There's like 100 people in my class, and then everybody else got here. They're like, oh my God, there's only 100 people in this class. This is so small. I was like, we've had different experiences. But definitely Baylor has given us, given me opportunities that I just love to showcase because I'm thankful for it.
Jeremy
So, if someone is wondering, like, do I belong at Baylor Law School? Because it sounds like that was something you thought about in college, and now you're not only a student here, your student ambassador. You interact with prospective students all the time. Do I belong at Baylor Law School? What would you say for them to think about?
Marley
Yeah, well, that's honestly something that a lot of students ask themselves every day. They're like, is this worth it? And it is. Like, I'm the perfect embodiment of because people have all these expectations of what you need to go or what you need to be in order to go to law school. And they're like, oh, you need to have all of these internships.
Marley
You need to have all these experiences, these grades, this type of personality. And I'm like, I went to a small school. I had barely any experience coming into law school. I came from a family that's not attorneys. And I was like, if anybody can do it, you can do it, because I did it. And I was like, I felt like I was an outlier in that.
But everybody has their own journey.
Jeremy
Yeah, there's no there's no sort of cookie cutter for a law student. I mean, if students from all different backgrounds and different resumes, so to speak. And I think that diversity really contributes to the, the environment here in a positive, in a positive way. So, what's, what's the, what do you think the future holds for you after law school?
Marley
I'm very much whatever God's plan is, I'm ready to tackle it. I'm going into my 2L summer, so I'm hoping opportunities will come out of that. But I just want to get into a place that, in an atmosphere that supports me, but also that I can help people. I'm very, I come from a family of public servants, and so I have that same mindset going into it.
And as a lawyer, you can offer that to people. So that's just my life goal is to help.
Jeremy
Yeah, I think I think that's great. Marley. Okay. We have come to the lightning round.
Marley
Oh, great.
Jeremy
Questions are silly. Your answers have to be short.
Candles or no candles?
Marley
Candles.
Jeremy
Minimalist or keep everything?
Marley
Minimalist.
Jeremy
Early arrival or right on time?
Marley
Early arrival.
Jeremy
Hot coffee or iced coffee?
Marley
Iced coffee.
Jeremy
Plan everything or go with the flow?
Marley
God's plan. But try to plan. Have a plan A.
Jeremy
Big friend group or a few close friends?
Marley
A few close friends.
Jeremy
Rewatch a favorite TV show or movie, or try something new?
Marley
Oh, try something new.
Jeremy
Okay, music while getting ready or total silence?
Marley
Music while getting ready.
Jeremy
Sweet or savory breakfast.
Marley
Sweet.
Jeremy
Study group or solo?
Marley
Solo.
Jeremy
Your alarm goes off in the morning. You get up on the first ring or you hit snooze?
Marley
Get up on the first ring.
Jeremy
You're watching a TV show, or you need to watch a TV show. Comedy or drama?
Marley
Drama.
Jeremy
Study at school, home, or somewhere else?
Marley
For studying I would say home.
Jeremy
Playlist or shuffle?
Marley
Shuffle.
Jeremy
Online shopping or in-store?
Marley
In-store.
Jeremy
We, we heard. drive or fly?
Marley
Drive.
Jeremy
Pizza or tacos?
Marley
Tacos.
Jeremy
I understand you have… From San Antonio. It's going to be tacos.
Marley
Yes.
Jeremy
I understand you have a question for me.
Marley
Yes. Just, you have interviewed some amazing people.
Jeremy
True.
Marley
You always, and you always seem to balance what the audience expects, as well as making sure that the person you're interviewing is seen and heard and comfortable. So how do you balance those two interests?
Jeremy
I definitely want the person who interviewing to feel comfortable. That's comfortable as possible. I don't really know what the audience expects.
You saying that is really the first confirmation that I've had an audience, so I don't know. I don't know that I really try to meet audience expectations. My, my main thing with this podcast, and I'm, I'm kidding about the audience. I mean, we do have an audience, and, and it's been good. I want people who are interested in Baylor Law School to see who Baylor, what Baylor Law School is.
And for me, the biggest part of that is our students. That's, that's our focus, you know, and I think I've said this before, but one of the things I love about Baylor Law School is I can go to every person who works for Baylor Law School, and I can say, what's the number one thing around here? And all of them would say something like the students.
So, to get to know Baylor Law School, you, in my mind, you have to get to know the students. And so, I think about prospective law students to get an insight into exactly what you were just saying. They may, in their mind may not think I'm lawyer material, but the more of our students they meet, the more likely it's like I connect with that person.
If they can do it, I can do it too. So, they don't sort of self-select out of a legal education because they don't think they fit the mold and there really isn't a mold. And so that's one thing that I, that I want. And I also hope that some of our alumni who maybe graduated ten or 20 or 30 years ago, can listen to the podcast and identify with our students and say, I remember. That was me.
You know, I was like Marley. I was like Niko. I was like this other person I heard on the podcast and really connected that way. One of my favorite moments coming out of this podcast is we had a, we host a dinner for new students and their parents, and it's right, it's the week before their son or daughter is going to start.
And I go around and I talk to the parents and, and one of the mom of one of the students said “I really like your podcast”.
Marley
Oh, nice.
Jeremy
Yeah. And so I thought, well, that's good because, you know, one, we do have something of an audience and, and I think at least it's, it's working to some extent to help people get to know. And as far as empathy, I just, I am interested in it. I think it's great you live with your grandmother. I grew up living next door to my grandmother.
And so that that connects with me, you know, having that ability to hear stories and things that, you know, always, I've just always found really fascinating.
Marley
So, I'm glad we could connect on that point.
Jeremy
I, I tell you what I worry about. I worry when you graduate and you move out of your grandmother's house, I worry about your grandmother. So, you know, maybe we should get her connected to Baylor Law School. And, you know, when you when you go off to wherever you're going to go, we can, we can make sure she's still gets access to law students.
Marley
Oh, definitely. A lot of her friends actually come and witness or jurors.
Jeremy
Oh do they?
Marley
So, they all… I bet she's going to.
Jeremy
Yeah. We have a program where we bring in people from the community, and they can serve as witnesses or jurors in our in our simulated trials. And it's great. It's great for students to get a chance to question real people.
Marley
Yes. And they love it. My grandma's bridge ladies just they talk about it every time that they come back.
Jeremy
Bridge ladies, are these ladies who play bridge? Okay.
Marley
Yeah. They have, like, a little group. That's really cute.
Jeremy
Very good. Marley, thanks. This was great.Appreciate you.
Marley
Thank you so much for having me.
Jeremy
Absolutely.
