From Scrubs to Suits: Why Dr. Holland Chose Baylor Law School
From Scrubs to Suits: Why Dr. Holland Chose Baylor Law School
How does a seasoned emergency room physician end up in law school—and not just any law school, but one with the most rigorous program designed to produce practice-ready lawyers? In this episode, Dean Jeremy Counseller sits down with Dr. Robby Holland, a doctor-turned-law student, who shares his journey from saving lives in the ER to seeking justice in the courtroom. He discusses the striking similarities between medicine and law, the challenges of his first year, and his passion for plaintiffs’ work. Plus, learn about his role in founding Baylor Law’s plaintiff’s organization, winning a national mock trial championship, and his transformative experience at Baylor Law School’s Academy of the Advocate in St Andrews, Scotland.
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TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy
Welcome to Counseller's Corner. I'm Jeremy Counseller, Dean of Baylor Law School, and I am delighted to be joined today by Robbie Holland. Three L, third year law student here at Baylor Law School. Robbie, first question I want to ask you is, does it upset you that I haven't called you Doctor Robbie Holland or Robbie Holland, M.D. in my introduction of you?
Robby
No, but that's actually funny. I've had classmates wonder if, when I get called on in class for, like, a cold call, if I was going to correct them, it's like, oh, Mr. Holland, it's a no, no, no, it's, it's Doctor.
Jeremy
Do you, have you corrected them? I think that's the right idea.
Robby
Not even, not even close.
Jeremy
I am so fascinated because I've been aware that you're a medical doctor, now a third year law student, and I've been aware of that for a long time. And I've wanted to ask you for the longest time, how do you and why do you make that journey from medic, from physician to lawyer?
Robby
It honestly is probably a little bit of a longer story, but, the basics, I wanted to help people, early on, and that's what drew me to medicine and what drew me to emergency medicine specifically, which is what I'm board-certified in. And I wanted people, when they had a problem, they came to me, right? You call 911, what do they take you? To me.
And that's when I'm going to help solve the problem. I'm going to do something. I'm going to fix something. I'm going to get them to the right people. If I can't do anything right now. But I'm, I'm there. I'm the resource. I also didn't want to be the type of doc that when I had kids, my, you know, kids’ friends come over.
Oh, hey, doctor Holland, you know, I got this problem. It's like, oh, don’t know about that buddy, I only do the eye. I didn’t want to be in that kind of situation. So it naturally led towards emergency medicine and I had a fulfilling career, made some good choices and was put in a financial situation where I could actually retire from medicine.
And I did! I ended up getting some ownership into, freestanding emergency rooms and, started some businesses and had other things going on, but I wasn't quite fulfilled. And I had a good friend of mine, Chase Evans, who's a Baylor lawyer and talking to him and thinking about what kind of options were out there. So, man, you should just go to law school and it got me excited.
And that's what it was. It was just the excitement. There's so many parallels between medicine and, and law with the, the concept and especially emergency medicine. The idea, you know, someone's coming into me again. Same thing with the law. You got a problem. What are you doing? You're going in seeking a solution. And I'm there, developing the relationship, the rapport and trying to figure things out.
And. Yeah, I'm just excited.
Jeremy
So, So how has law school so far been different than what you expected or what you wanted? Or maybe it's matched up well? I don't know, but I'm curious about your reaction to that.
Robby
No, I think I get that question and the comparison between med school and, and law school quite a bit. The, I will say to do that one, the first year of law school is harder than the first year of medical school. No. No question. And med school, you're getting re-exposed to basic sciences, which you've already had, you know, in college.
So you're just doing it again, a little bit more thorough, etc. starting to sprinkle in some, some medicine for you. But in law school it's, it's coming in and it's completely different. There's no shortcutting it, tons of reading you know, learning what y'all are looking for. You know, how to think. That's the common thing. And it's like, you hear it.
Yeah. You're just learning how to think, how to logically go through information. And yeah, so it was it was a lot more time, I think in time intensive than I was expecting. But it's, it's been great experience.
Jeremy
Yeah. One of the things I find so interesting is that you have started the plaintiff's law student organization. I would think that as a physician, a plaintiff's lawyer is sort of, its dogs and cats. Right? And so what drew you to want to do that? And and it's been it's a new organization. It's been very successful. You had a great panel discussion the other day with some plaintiff lawyers.
Robby
Great guys
Jeremy
Moderated by Professor Brewster. So it's off to a great start. But I'm curious about, like, do your doctor friends, like, what are you doing, man?
Robby
No. And that's, that's one of the first questions I usually get is - you're planning on suing doctors? The short answer to that is no. But plaintiff's law is definitely a draw for me for from the beginning. Again, kind of going back to that emergency medicine and what's, what's familiar. In plaintiff's world, you think someone's had like potentially the worst day of their life.
Right. And this bad experience. And what do they do? They need help. They come to you. You're there to help that you, you know, but now with this, I can help someone for the rest of their life. You know, I can, I can make a change and impact that one person, but not just that one person. Because what if it's a safety issue or product thing?
Now I'm impacting thousands of people and that's huge. I mean, that to me was just the concept of that was just so fulfilling versus, you know, I'm just, you know, sitting at a desk, plugging away, billing hours and trying to, you know, deny people, compensation when, when they were wronged. So definitely a draw towards the the plaintiff side in general.
I had, was fortunate to be part of the mock trial team, with AAJ this last spring with Deaconson.
Jeremy
And how'd that go, by the way?
Robby
That was amazing. It was an amazing experience. We won the national championship. Yep. So I was only a witness at the time, but, apparently very credible cop, and, technician. So it worked out. But, no, it's a great experience. And traveling to Chicago doing that, met a lot of people, even some of the, the judges and things that were at the competition as well that I've run into, since then.
And AAJ is part of winning. They flew us out to the national convention. And so, Anderson said when I went and got to fly to the national convention and it was huge. Yeah, I mean, it was it was amazing how many people. And it started opening my eyes to there's so many other avenues. It's, you know, plaintiff's work isn't just, you know, a car wreck thing.
There's so many different things that I just had no idea about. And, and I think that's a common thing. You, you don't know what you don't know. Right. And seeing that was like, wow, we don't know any of this stuff as students. So what better idea than to try to bring an organization, to bring some awareness to the student population, to let them choose.
Right? How are you supposed to make a decision, an educated decision on what you're going to do for the rest of your life if you don't have information? Yeah. So, you know, it just seemed to make sense.
Jeremy
Yeah. Well, I'm glad you got that experience because it really is eye opening. I remember when I was in law school. Yeah. For like, it's like you have a sense that you want to be a lawyer, but a lot of times we start law school, we don't even really know what that looks like. You probably had a better sense of at least what some lawyers do because of your, your business experience and your experience as a physician.
But yeah, to get exposed to different things, it really is, eye opening. Is there, you've talked about some of these experiences, but is there a one maybe other than the AAJ experience, one experience in law school, in class, or with an organization that was really particularly impactful on you?
Robby
I don't know that there's one that necessarily just rises to the top. Baylor has been amazing by providing so many opportunities, exposures, you know, things to provide that education and awareness. And I think that that's one of the hallmarks for Baylor is that the concept of trying to provide an education so that a student can come out and be practice ready.
I see examples of that all the time. And it, that's what's amazing and impactful to me, especially being, you know, not a K through JD kid and, and just coming through when I get out, I want to go right on. I want to I want to start; I want to be able to do something. And while everybody's going to be a baby lawyer when you get out, but I want to hit the ground running.
And I think it's been amazing to me, those experiences that Baylor has provided, trying to get us ready to go.
Jeremy
Yeah. One experience that, that she had this past summer was, the Saint Andrews’ program. How was how was that?
Robby
Yeah, that highly recommended c ompletely. And honestly, it was it was amazing. I mean, I did some traveling beforehand as well. But the
Jeremy
I should say this is our study abroad program in Scotland, in Saint Andrews, Scotland, is focused on advocacy.
Robby
But yeah, very true. The, the education that you receive there in such a short amount of time was amazing. The feedback, the advocacy skills, that again, you know, I'd been on a team, I'd seen lots of things. There's big difference between seeing and doing. And you really got to experience that there that you know when you're stepping up and doing this and you know getting professors, you know give me feedback and I'm like this is my first time to ever try to cross somebody like you know.
And it's but you're always going to have that first. Right. And so trying to work through that. And it was such a positive experience. Beautiful location. Amazing faculty and such positivity.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Robby
You know, whenever they were given feedback and I said just very insightful feedback. And I was impressed.
Jeremy
One thing that I really like about the program, aside from the things that you said and the beautiful location and the camaraderie amongst the faculty and the students, it's a rare opportunity, maybe the only opportunity where you go and you're studying advocacy and you don't have anything else on your plate at the time, like, like when you were on a team, you have other things going on.
So it's sort of one of the balls that you're bouncing. But this really focuses you in on that one thing. And enjoy yourself in Scotland, which is, yeah, those two things together really, I think just a great combination. So I think you've said what you want to do with your law degree, made it pretty clear, but what do you think is the first step for you?
Is it it to join a plaintiff's firm? Is it to go out on your own?
Robby
That's a great question. And it's something that I'm still, you know, working on. Again, it's one of those you don't know what you don't know. I have from the beginning said, same thing when I went through medical school, I don't want to go in with blinders on. Because you're going to miss opportunities. So I've been blinders off.
I'm constantly looking around, talking to people and networking and trying to see, you know, what's out there. I can tell you that I don't want, to go to some. I'm not just looking for a job. Right? I'm not looking for a 9 to 5 punch in a clock, that type of thing. So I'm a more unique, you know, law student and looking for a more unique situation.
And it may be that I end up, just doing something on my own. And, trying to just make an impact in my community.
Jeremy
Yeah. That's great. That's great. Okay, moving on to the lightning round. Your answers to this have to be, have to be short. But I'm really curious about your answer to these questions. Okay. In your opinion, what is the best restaurant in Waco?
Robby
Marosos
Jeremy
Good answer.
Robby
Yeah.
Jeremy
Your favorite TV show of all time. Assuming you've ever had a moment to watch some television.
Robby
I've had plenty of opportunity. Honestly, I'll go with, Friends. It's just one of those ones that I can actually watch over and over again and still laugh at. That's pretty impressive.
Jeremy
Yeah. Favorite novel or work of nonfiction?
Robby
I'm really. I don't have a one favorite. I've. Jim Butcher is one of my favorite authors. And he's written quite a few things, but I've really gotten into kind of the fantasy genre, and did a lot of reading, towards the end of my career and in my short retirement.
Jeremy
Butcher is a fantasy writer. Okay, good. I like fantasy, too. Do you have a personal motto, scripture or quotation or phrase you draw on for strength or inspiration?
Robby
No. But, I would say that my two, I think I had a one motto. “It's never enough”. You know, I'm I'm never doing enough. That's one of them. Never satisfied. So that's one of those kind of mottos, but one that I say all the time is “it's all relative”.
Jeremy
Yeah
Robby
that tends to be my, my go to phrase.
Jeremy
That's a very physician answer I think. In 15, 15 seconds or less, describe your dream vacation. Maybe you've already taken it.
Robby
Yeah, we could do it again. Honestly, it would be multiple locations with beautiful scenery. I loved floating down the river doing fly fishing in Montana, and that was probably one of my favorites.
Jeremy
Okay, I understand you may have a question or two for me.
Robby
Yes, sir. So one of my questions would be, obviously, I've experienced it in my career in medicine, but not necessarily in, in law. How do you balance work life? You know, when I still have kids, I've got a 12 year old and 16 year old boys and still raising them, while doing all this stuff. How do you do that in law?
What kind of tips or anything that you could give me or anybody else?
Jeremy
Yeah. You know, for me, in my own personal situation, the first thing I'd have to say is I've got a fantastic wife who is, who is omnipresent. For my kids, that's a choice that, you know, she, she made. She was a schoolteacher, but then worked part time. And so she's been always there. She's the, the rock for the for the kids.
Jeremy
So I can't take a lot of credit on striking the balance. To be very candid with you. I also think the work life balance, I'm I'm sure you probably experienced this as a physician. It's not always in balance. Right? I mean, if you look over a long enough timeline, maybe there is some balance there. But there are particular moments where, you know, there is that client, there is that case, there is that project and the balance is going to skew and there may be other times where the balance tips back in favor of, you know, your kids and your, and your family.
One of the things that I think, and I don't know that my wife and I were intentional about this, but I think it's helped is, we've always talked to our kids about, you have a job, right? And, and we've, we've said, you have a job. Your job is school. Your job is this sport team. You're playing on this your job is whatever this activity is.
And they work hard. Kids today spend a lot of time on their thing.
Robby
Well aware.
Jeremy
Yeah I'm sure. And so I think that helps them see okay. Right now dad's job is to do this other thing. Mom's job is to do this, just like I was at a basketball tournament or a volleyball tournament all the time. And I think one, here's another thing.
Just very practical stuff I think has been helpful. And again, my wife gets all the credit for this. A couple of things that we always did read to our kids from the time we brought them home from the hospital until they could read on their own every night. And then the second thing was, dinner around the table.
Those are things that were sort of foundational that the kids could rely on that I think, I think have been have been helpful. But we're all busy. I mean, in not just adults, as you know, as you know, I mean, it's kids too. They're busy too.
Robby
Now. Completely. It's amazing how the world is changing and all the things that are there. I did want to ask about the beard.
Jeremy
Yea.
Robby
I started, you know, obviously I've been carrying mine the entire time, but when I started here, you had a beard.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Robby
The only way I knew you. Then all of a sudden, next quarter, it was just gone.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Robby
Yeah.
Jeremy
I don't remember why I shaved my beard. But I have over the years, grown beards and then shaved them off. I remember one time in classes was 10 or 12 years ago. I had long hair. And this really sort of Grizzly Man beard and I, over, I think it might have been spring break. I came back from spring break, I left class, I finished class before spring break, had the beard, the long.
hair. I come back on that Monday. I have cut my hair short and I'm clean shaven. And I walked in the class and the students were looking at me.
Robby
I was going to say I could 100% see that throwing them for a.
Jeremy
Is it the same person? And I just said to them, it's a big difference, right? And so, but I love having a beard. I mean, if I didn't do this job that I do now, where I've got to be on podcasts and on YouTube and stuff, I probably have a beard. One time I, I grew a beard out and half my beard from this side was gray.
And the other side
Robby
oh no,
Jeremy
it was brown. I was like, I look like a comic book villain.
Robby
It's funny.
Jeremy
So I immediately shave that off and then the next time, maybe 18 months later, it was consistently gray all the way through. I was like, I can, yeah, I can live with that. Yeah. One rule that I have is if I'm on vacation, I do not shave. I do not shave.
Robby
So yeah, I like it.
Jeremy
There will be another beard at some point, but yeah, I like having a beard. It's my natural state.
Robby
It's the natural state. I like that. That's good. Yeah.
Jeremy
Robby. Thank you. Appreciate it. Proud of you.
Robby
And I definitely appreciate everything that like I said, all the opportunities Baylor's, given me. It's been an amazing time.
Jeremy
Good, good. Thanks for joining us.
Robby
No. Thank you.
