Julia Incerpi: Why She Traded Lesson Plans for Legal Work
Julia Incerpi: Why She Traded Lesson Plans for Legal Work
From teaching high school Spanish to tackling the challenges of Baylor Law, Julia Incerpi brings insight and humor to her conversation with Dean Jeremy Counseller. Together, they explore Julia’s hour-long daily commute, her balancing act as a parent and law student, and her leadership of the Hispanic American Law Student Association (HALSA), all while reflecting on the growth that comes from overcoming challenges.
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TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy
Welcome to another episode of Counseller’s Corner. I'm Jeremy Counseller, Dean of Baylor Law School, and I'm very pleased to be joined today by Julia Incerpi. How are you doing, Julia?
Julia
I'm good. How are you?
Jeremy
I'm good. So, tell me, just to start off with, how far along are you in law school? Where are you?
Julia
I just started my third year; so seven Q.
Jeremy
OK. In PC or no?
Julia
No. Next cycle.
Jeremy
Next cycle, you'll be in practice court. One of the things I want to talk to you about is law school is not your first stop on your professional journey. You were a teacher.
Julia
Yes.
Jeremy
Tell me about that.
Julia
It… I didn't really choose to be a teacher. I had a college degree and lived in Gatesville and spoke Spanish. And that lended itself to the, a, the possibility. And they needed a Spanish teacher. And I mean, the district directors kind of hounded me for several years. And asking me to be to get licensed. And I ended up doing it, and it worked out with the pandemic.
It was much better than selling ads for the newspaper, which is what I had been doing, but it just wasn't for me. I enjoyed it. It was very creative. But it just wasn't going to work out for me in the long term.
Jeremy
What grades were you teaching?
Julia
Mostly freshmen.
Jeremy
Okay.
Julia
High school.
Jeremy
I have noticed in recent years we have had a lot of law students who have sort of their, their experience as a public-school teacher has caused them to realize, I think I'm going to go to law school. So, they're generating students for us, the public education system. But I think it's a wonderful thing to do and that you've done.
I'm wondering how that experience teaching might inform how you handle law school or how you approach law school.
Julia
Well, for example, in your class, one time I asked a question, and you said that I didn't need to ask the question because you knew everything that I was, that we were going to ask and that you would cover it and that it was Groundhog Day. And I was like, oh, that was my experience also as a teacher.
And so, I still ask questions sometimes, but I ask fewer questions and just trust. I trust that the professors know what they're doing, because y'all have been doing it for so long and are so great at it.
Jeremy
You know, just to be clear, I don't have godlike powers. It's just that when I say Groundhog Day, you mentioned Groundhog Day, that it's, I've taught the course Civil Procedure so many times, that everything that happens in the classroom has happened before. So, I know kind of what's going to happen before it happens. And there's multiple iterations. I mean, there's 50 different ways when I say something that that might pan out in terms of student reaction, but I know I've experienced all of them. But yeah, it is kind of like, there's a repetitive aspect to teaching and you either like that or you don't like that, I, I really like that aspect of it.
Julia
It was nice to have the predictability. You know, I taught Spanish I most years, seven classes of Spanish I in each day. And so, I just kept them all the same. And I too could anticipate the questions they were going to ask and started telling the same jokes, you know, and it's just kind of a script and you just, adapt to the circumstances.
Jeremy
To me, it's always amazing. If you're a public-school teacher, how much you teach, like seven classes a day, that's a ton. I mean, that is a ton. University or law school professors - seven classes a day - nuts. And they would never do that. But walk out on us if we try to get them to do that. So, the most important role I'm sure you would agree that you have is you're a mom.
So, tell us about your child and kind of where they are in life and how you balance all that with law school.
Julia
Well, my son, I'm just so grateful for him. He, Salvador, is really helpful and he's gotten so much more helpful. He helps with dinner, and he does a lot of chores around the house and…
Jeremy
How old is Salvador?
Julia
He's nine. He just turned nine. And so, you know, just something simple. He might make some pizza pockets or something frozen like that, but just not having to be responsible for dinner some nights is huge.
Jeremy
Because you're a single mom, right?
Julia
Yes.
Jeremy
So, you and Salvador are in this thing together, I guess, this whole law school adventure.
Julia
and my grandma.
Jeremy
And your grandma.
Julia
He helps also with her too.
Jeremy
Well.
Julia
So…
Jeremy
I want Salvador and your grandma. I hope they listen to this, and they can hear me say how proud we are of you, and how happy we are to have you here, and how well you're doing as a, as a law student. And you're going to be a great future lawyer.
Julia
Thank you.
Jeremy
So let me make sure Salvador hears at least that part.
The rest of this will be boring. Okay. You are commuting. You mentioned Gatesville, which is about, what, like 25 miles west of here, 30 miles west of here?
Julia
I think it's a little further than that. When I started, my commute was about 45 minutes, and that seemed fine. And now with all the construction, it's almost an hour. And just that extra 15 minutes it seems more.
Jeremy
Yeah, you're coming in on highway 84?
Julia
And so, I just take 84 now to Franklin and I just take Franklin all the way to the University Parks.
Jeremy
And so, you've got like an hour and a half to two hours every day in the car.
Julia
Yes.
Jeremy
What do you do with that time?
Julia
So, if I am having a hard time keeping up with my reading, I use an app that reads my readings to me. It's not ideal.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Julia
You know, it's not the same as.
Jeremy
Touching the page. Tactile thing is important.
Julia
Writing. Yeah.
So, I'll compensate by, when I get back, I'll try to take notes on the page.
Jeremy
Please don't take notes while you're driving.
Julia
No, I don't do that.
Jeremy
Please don't do that. We, we need you safe.
Julia
Yes. But sometimes, I can't do that. You know, it's going to put me to sleep. And so, I listen to music or other podcasts.
Jeremy
Okay. What podcast do you listen to? That's what I would do with the time.
Julia
There's a comedian, John Marco Soresi, and he has a podcast called The Downside. And it's funny.
Jeremy
Okay. So, you… Yeah, I'm, I have more serious tastes in my podcasts, probably for my det, to my detriment, but…
Julia
Well, but, I am also in class all day listening to serious stuff.
Jeremy
That's true. That’s true.
You need a little. Whereas I'm just goofing around all day in my job. I'm sure I need something; I need something serious. So, what advice, because we do have a lot of students who commute. I mean, we have some students who commute from the metroplex in, you know, the Austin area, all over. What advice would you give to someone who may be considering coming to Baylor Law School was thinking, well, I'm going to have to drive 30 minutes or 45 minutes.
Julia
Yeah, I mean, I always wonder, oh, would I do so much better if I had that extra time that my, some of my peers, most of my peers have to be studying and, you know, it's just my reality. It's, it's doable. I know some of my peers that are doing an hour and a half, that seems like a, like, one way seems like a lot.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Julia
But they do it and they're successful. Christina Woodall is...
Jeremy
Yeah.
Julia
You know, she's now with Judge Gilliland.
Jeremy
She's, she's great.
Julia
She's amazing. Yeah.
Jeremy
You know it, it's one of those things I would think that emphasizes or places a premium on something that's important for all law students, regardless of the length of their commute, is time management is so important. And if you're spending 2 hours or 3 hours a day in a car, it's even more important. You've got to use your time well, both for studies and for the other things you have going on in your lives.
And you don't want to, you don’t want to lose your relationships either while you're in law school, so it puts a premium on that for sure. You have lived in multiple places outside of Texas. Where are you from originally? Are you from California? Am I right about that?
Julia
So, I always say it's kind of complicated. I was born in Venezuela.
Jeremy
Okay.
Julia
And then when I was four years old, my grandparents brought me to Gatesville in the same house that we're living in now, because my grandfather is, was, from Coryell County, and he worked for Exxon Mobil in Venezuela. And that's how he met my grandmother.
Jeremy
Gotcha.
Julia
Then my mom came up afterwards, and we're from the capital. She did not want to live in Gatesville. So, my uncle lived in San Francisco. So, yes, I grew up in San Francisco, did my K-through-12 there, then I did my associates in Portland, Oregon, and then got my bachelor's at the University of Montana in Missoula.
Jeremy
So how does Texas stack up against all? I mean, just thinking about the person who's like, I want to go to Baylor Law School, but I'm not so sure about Texas. They're not so sure about Waco. How does that or the Waco area, who does that stack up compared to other places you've lived?
Julia
I like the slower pace of life that I have in Gatesville.
Jeremy
Because Gatesville’s smaller, even than Waco.
Julia
Yeah, I mean, it's five minutes to H-E-B. You know everybody.
Jeremy
H-E-B is the only grocery store in Texas, by the way, for those listening out of state. It's a great one. But it's, it's one of the few.
Julia
It is really, it's really good. They've got a lot of good stuff. And yeah, and then Waco has a lot to offer, I think, for being as small as it is compared to, you know, other cities. And then you've got Austin, Dallas, Houston, they're not very far away. So, you can, I think you can do if you're willing to drive, which if you live in Houston, you're going to be driving an hour and a half all the time anyways.
Jeremy
Right? So, you're an hour and a half from Houston when you're in Houston.
Julia
Yeah.
Jeremy
You know what I like about Gatesville? The drive-in movie theater.
Julia
Oh, yeah.
Jeremy
I love that about Gatesville. We used to take the kids there and watch, watch movies, but it's a great, that's a great feature in Gatesville, and also Gatesville is the place, as you go west, where the topography sort of changes. The, it becomes hillier and, more rugged I think than Waco.
So, there's a lot, there's a lot to, to be to, to recommend Gatesville as well. Okay. Now I want to talk about some of this, some of the things you've done in law school. You are the president of HALSA, which is our Hispanic American Law Student Association. Talk about your role in that organization and then what the, what the work of the organization is.
Julia
So, I think, I think that its role mostly, I would say there's two parts to it. One is to support the Hispanic community here at Baylor Law School, but another is also to showcase and celebrate Hispanic culture and share that with the general population. So, I work a lot with, with Katherine Sims and of course with…
Jeremy
Director of Student Affairs.
Julia
Yes. And with Professor Hernandez, who's our advising professor. So, we did a Loteria, Mexican bingo. We did a game last quarter. We do… We've started our candy sales annually; started with me last year and for Hispanic Heritage Month. And that's been a hit with people and, since did a great job with the celebration with the tamales. And I don't know if you were able to go . It was on October 15th.
Jeremy
No, I didn't go. That wasn't I wasn't here that day, I guess. But, but, but the, the student organizations here, including HALSA, really add to the vibrancy of the, just the feeling in the building. I mean, there's always something cool going on. And, and all of our student organizations are open to all students. So, it's, it's a really great opportunity for students to get plugged in, do some good, get involved, meet their people, and kind of the people that are going to be closest to in law school.
And I hope it's been that for you.
Julia
I've made a lot of friends through the members and not just in HALSA, but also, working with the other affinity groups, which would be the Black student organization, the Asian student organization, working together under the broader diversity in law umbrella to, I guess, support each other and celebrate each other.
Jeremy
Yep. Okay. I want to talk about what you did this past summer. Well, tell me what you did this past summer. What sort of what sorts of things did you do?
Julia
I did you mean…
Jeremy
For work.
Julia
Okay. I did an internship with the Greater Waco Legal Services Organization, and just did a lot of, wrote a lot of memos, and it reminded me, you know, just going back to, LARC 1 and 2 and how huge that seemed then.
Jeremy
Yeah. Yeah.
Julia
And then actually doing it and just churning them out, you know, sometimes one a day or more.
Jeremy
And did you have a moment where you like, I can't believe I can do this so quickly.
Julia
Yes.
Jeremy
Compared to how much, how hard it was the first. Yeah.
Julia
Yes.
Jeremy
It's one of those things I remember this as a student and a young lawyer. You, you look back, and you go, I'm better at this than I used to be.
I mean, it's still hard, but I'm better at this than I used to be.
Julia
Yeah. And I've gotten, I mean, the writing program here is so great. I think I've grown a lot as a writer and learned to be more concise and just hit the things that need to be hit without going over and the, you know, getting those arguments more finely tuned and all that.
Jeremy
And you also worked for a law firm, I think, Pakis, Giotes?
Julia
Yes.
Jeremy
Yeah. Tell me about that experience.
Julia
That was also great. They are a general law firm. They do a lot of different things, and I really enjoyed that. I enjoyed doing a little bit of personal injury stuff here. And then also some business stuff here, and property and writing memos, but also writing letters for clients and, some litigation things. So…
Jeremy
So, not that you need to know, but where do you want to go in your career? You don't have to know it now. But what are you, what are you thinking about in the future after graduation?
Julia
I'm going to stay here in the Waco area, and I'm really happy. I was just talking to Katherine Sims this morning because I just have loved my time, or am loving my time here in Baylor. And I love the community here and everybody that I've met and the support. And I look forward to being able to maintain that more easily staying in the area.
Jeremy
Yeah, well, you make it easy to support you. We, we want to root, root for you and help you in any way we can. So, we have now come to the lightning round.
Julia
Okay.
Jeremy
Okay, lightning round questions are silly. Answers have to be short.
Julia
Okay.
Jeremy
What's the last book you read for fun?
Julia
I'm reading Snow Crash.
Jeremy
What is that?
Julia
It's a sci fi book.
Jeremy
Ooh, I like sci fi.
Julia
Oh, it's really good.
Jeremy
Okay. Snow Crush.
Julia
Snow Crash.
Jeremy
Snow Crash.
Julia
It's got, like anthropology stuff, and it's… I think it was written in the 80s. And he's talking about the metaverse, which is like the internet, but it's you know, kind of a virtual reality thing, and drones. When I first read it in the early 2000s, we didn't have drones.
Jeremy
So, you're rereading a book?
Julia
I always reread books, especially now that I'm in law school, because that way I can pick it up and put it down more easily.
Jeremy
So, I rewatch movies and television shows, but I don't reread books. When we get off the air here, I'll give you a recommendation for my favorite sci fi book. Okay, Snow Crash, I'll keep it in mind. All right. We've, I've totally messed up the lightning round here. Does pineapple belong on a pizza?
Julia
I believe that everybody can do what they want with their pizza. I'm okay with it.
Jeremy
That is just a cop out. Do you have to say yes or no? Pineapple on a pizza - for you?
Julia
Sure.
Jeremy
That's incorrect. So, favorite movie as a kid?
Julia
The Never Ending Story.
Jeremy
I like that. It kind of scared me.
Julia
Yeah, it is.
Jeremy
Kind of scary. Know? It is scary. Best way to eat a potato?
Julia
Mashed.
Jeremy
Your favorite fast-food restaurant?
Julia
Whataburger.
Jeremy
You're a Texan. You're a Texan. What meal do you make the most for yourself, or you and your family?
Julia
Yeah. Most often? Right now, probably like nachos or bean dip or something like that.
Jeremy
Is a hot dog a sandwich?
Julia
No.
Jeremy
Correct. You are going to compete in an Olympic sport. What is the sport?
Julia
Oh, I don't even know what the Olympic sports are. I don't know, sprint, maybe.
Jeremy
Okay. That's, there are various ones. That's good. Okay, I understand you have a question for me.
Julia
Yes. Okay. So, we both have children.
Jeremy
We do.
Julia
Well, you have more than I do. But, talking about Salvador again, he has been talking about becoming a lawyer when he grows up. And sometimes, now that he's watching me study late into the night, he's like, oh, maybe I don't want to do that.
But with your daughter having aspirations to go to law school, how do you encourage your child, maybe without pushing them, but how do you encourage them and support them on that journey?
Jeremy
So, you may remember me saying this in class, but I have told, I have three children. I've told them since they were very young. All three of them. I've told them this, both individually and collectively. I want one doctor.
Julia
Which you have, right?
Jeremy
One. Well, one on the way, one lawyer and one priest. So, my son's in medical school, my oldest. He had three choices. He could be doctor, lawyer, or priest. He went doctor. So that's now off the table. My middle child will be going to law school in the fall. She doesn't know where yet, but she's going to go to law school in the fall.
So that's a lawyer. My youngest is
Julia
Stuck?
Jeremy
stuck to be a priest now. According to her, God has not called her to the to the priesthood. But he told me, and so I've just told her, you know, he did call you, and so either he misspoke or you misheard. Take your pick. And so, I think we all are going to need to pray for her when she finds herself enrolled at Truett Seminary in a few years.
I haven't really. I never told my kids you should be a lawyer. I did encourage my son to pursue being a doctor because he had some interest in that. I, you know, I think your son is probably going to find a lot of inspiration. Probably does already. I mean, he's nine. That's a hard thing for a nine-year-old to understand what's going to inspire him in the future.
But I'll tell you what, he's always going to admire you for doing it. That, his whole life is built on what you and your grandmother are doing for him right now. The, it's, you're not just raising the trajectory of your life through your education. You're doing that for your son as well. So, whatever he does, you're laying the foundation for that in what, in what you're doing.
And I think the, the advice I would give my kids, I mean, putting aside the doctor, lawyer, priest thing is just, you know, find something you're good at. I think that's really important because if you're good at it, you're going to like it.
And, you know, I hope that is what they do. My son likes what he's doing so far, which I was worried about. You know, he, it's a, it's a big, long road you know. It is. So, yeah, I just, I just think tell them to find something they're good at. And then if they find something they've been good out there like it, and they'll have a great career.
So, Julia, thank you so much. Thank you. By the way, my daughter's a huge fan of yours.
Julia
Oh, I'm a huge fan of hers.
Jeremy
Full disclosure, my daughter works in the career development office as a student worker. So, undergraduate student worker. And, she's a big fan, so…
Julia
Thank you.
Jeremy
Thanks for that.
