Drew Calvert Shares His Experience at the Academy of the Advocate, Scotland
Drew Calvert Shares His Experience at the Academy of the Advocate, Scotland
In this episode of Counseller’s Corner, Baylor Law School student Drew Calvert joins Dean Jeremy Counseller to talk about his road to law school and his unforgettable summer at Baylor Law School’s Academy of the Advocate at St Andrews, Scotland. Drew shares how this immersive international experience with world-class mentoring sharpened his advocacy skills and why it is one of the most rewarding opportunities available to law students nationwide.
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TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy
This is Jeremy Counseller, Dean of Baylor Law School. Welcome to another edition of Counseller’s Corner. And today, my guest is Drew Calvert. Drew, welcome. How are you doing?
Drew
I'm doing well. How about yourself? Thank you for having me on.
Jeremy
I'm on, and I'm happy to have you on. Here's something that, I think I think is true of you. You're a six-quarter law student at Baylor, but your mom and your dad are Baylor lawyers. Am I right about that?
Drew
That's correct. Yes, sir.
Jeremy
So, I'm curious. What did they tell you about Baylor Law School before you got here?
Drew
They are a constant reminder that things used to be what they would call a little bit worse than it is today. They, they said it was a little bit of an intense program back then with their old PC professors.
Jeremy
Everybody thinks it was easier or harder back then. You know, they walked through the snow and everything. One of the things I love about… Do they do they tell you about, like, give you advice on how to do things, or…?
Drew
One of the things they, they caution about the beginning is, as y'all have mentioned multiple times, everyone's a good student here. Everyone's highly qualified to be at Baylor Law. And don't be surprised when you're, you're not always getting your straight A's across the board now that you're in a, on a curve at Baylor Law.
Jeremy
So, yeah, it's a lot of really talented people when you go to when you go to law school, and that's certainly true of Baylor Law School. One of the things I think is funny, and I've noticed this over the years, is when I meet an alum and they will tell me, well, my son or my daughter is now in law school.
And the first couple times it happened, you know, I'm teaching their kids. And I was like, uh oh. You know, maybe they're upset with me because I called on their daughter or called on their son or told them - that’s not the way they are at all. They're like, pour it on. My daughter sits on the fourth row of your class, third seat from the left.
Call on her every day. So, it's, it's kind of funny that way. Okay. I want to talk about you. Tell me, sort of, your journey between high school and coming to Baylor Law School. Where'd you go to college? What did you do after college? That sort of thing.
Drew
Sure. So, when I first graduated high school, I ended up coming down to Baylor for undergrad, and I was here for two years, and then my family had a medical emergency. So, I left Baylor for a year in order to help out with my family. And in the meantime, spent a lot of time with prayer and in church and decided I wanted to go pursue the rest of my education up in University of Arkansas.
So, after that year break, I finished up at University of Arkansas. And the Lord was very gracious to me there, gave me a wife. So, I can't complain too much. And, got married. And just through a series of opportunities, I ended up falling into a research and development job with a fertilizer company down in South Florida.
So, I did not, I'm a Texas boy through and through. I didn't really think I was going to go to South Florida. And I'm also an economics major, not a science major. So being thrust into a very heavily science-based role was a steep learning curve. But I had some really good teachers, who helped guide me and give me the information and resources I needed to step up into that role.
So, for the next keep going on three years, I worked there, got transferred up to Alabama to run a manufacturing facility for our company. But over the course of my employment, I really enjoyed it. I was enjoying what I was doing, enjoying the work. But something that became apparent was, it sounds fun to go off and be away from everyone’s family and do your own thing. But as we were away, a lot of life we started missing with our families in Texas and Arkansas and realized being 24 hours away in Florida or 12 hours away in Alabama meant you missed a lot of those opportunities. So, we started praying and asking the Lord what he wanted us to do.
And, my wife said, have you thought about going to law school? And I said, well, I told my mom, dad, I'd never go to law school. I was going to go do something else. She kept on saying, well, you should try law school, try law school. So then after a couple of weeks of wearing me down, I eventually said, all right, well, we're going to trust the Lord.
I'm going to study for the LSAT, and we're going to see what the Lord opens up. And God was faithful and kind of the school that rang through was Baylor Law. And so, we're here and she says, I reset the factory defaults and went back to the family business.
Jeremy
Yeah. So. So your wife is from Arkansas?
Drew
Yes, sir.
Jeremy
And where did you say in Texas you're from? I missed that.
Drew
Waxahachie, so just north of here.
Jeremy
Okay. I've heard that you have either attempted a Guinness World Record. What? What is this?
Drew
Oh, in high school, my, I was part of an improvisational competitive group. You went around and competed in improv, and we got, we were good enough or people liked us enough that we got, won enough to be on the national competition. Had that competition. They had the most number of people wearing all duct tape clothing in one place at one time.
So, we are in the Guinness Book of World Records as having the largest group of duct tape clothing in one place.
Jeremy
Okay, I admit I don't know what to say about that. How do you regard that in your life? Where do you keep that? Is that achievement? Is that conversation starter? What is that?
Drew
It's in the, the catalog of conversation starters. You can throw them out. Or when somebody says, if conversation starts dying out, you can always throw that one in there. People get a little curious.
Jeremy
Yeah, I was curious. I was curious. Okay. You did something this summer. You attended the Baylor Law School Academy of the Advocate in St Andrews. Tell me what that program is about.
Drew
Well, it's a, it's a great program and good opportunity. I was instantly interested. They brought it up in orientation that it's a program in which Baylor, along with other law schools, go to St Andrews. And we have faculty and staff there who let you really engage with advocacy, both in moot court, but also in trial advocacy through an intense program where you get to practice a lot.
We had a lot of one-on-one feedback, just to really shape and improve your skills as an advocate.
Jeremy
You said St Andrews, St Andrews, where?
Drew
St Andrews, Scotland. That's a good point. So, you get to go overseas and get to sit in a fun town and play by the seaside for a little bit.
Jeremy
What, what was your what was your favorite part of, being in Scotland?
Drew
Well, directly after the program, my wife and I went on a, like a hundred-mile backpacking trip across the Scottish Highlands, and that was that was beautiful. The Highlands are hard to beat them.
Jeremy
So. Yeah. Well, that's great. That's great. So, I'm, I'm wondering if what, what's course did you take in the program?
Drew
I was the advanced school of the advocate.
Jeremy
Okay. The trial?
Drew
Trial Advocate.
Jeremy
Okay.
Drew
Yes, sir.
Jeremy
Okay, so tell me what, what sort of things you learned in, in that program?
Drew
So, starting out, you have a classroom portion in which a, the advanced trial of the advocate assumes that you have a cursory knowledge of the trial proceedings and have the main components, but they still hit you with an overview of all the components. And, but then pretty short order, they drop you in the fire of, we're going to get you to start speaking in front of us and we want to start seeing and improving how you present and how you are making arguments inside the courtroom.
Jeremy
Yeah. Did you, while you were there, did you, sort of outside the classroom, did you have a, other than the backpacking trip with your wife, did you have any favorite experiences in the town of St Andrews?
Drew
Yeah, there was a, a lot of opportunities. When the classes ended, we had the afternoon to kind of explore the town and engage with different local establishments. And so, a lot of the people in the group, we'd go out and go try different eateries and walk around or go…
Jeremy
Did you have a favorite restaurant up there?
Drew
I think it's stereotypical for everyone who goes there, but Little Italy. The Italian food was the best place of St Andrews, that's for sure.
Jeremy
I agree, I do agree.
Drew
It's surprisingly good.
Jeremy
Yeah, it's, it's really, it's, it's, it is surprising that it's that good in a, in this little town in Scotland. So, does this mean because you did the advanced school of the trial, does this mean that you want to be in litigation, want to be a trial lawyer?
Drew
I like litigation a lot. There's, that's probably the most fun I get to have right now is, I mean, I'm on the mock trial team, and it's nothing like standing up and fighting in the courtroom a little bit. So, I really enjoy the litigation component. And the professors there furthered that love for litigation.
Jeremy
Yeah.
So, what do you think the future holds for you career, career wise?
Drew
That's an excellent question. I think my, my wife and I would both like to know that. So, we're, we're exploring different careers. I worked this past summer at McLennan County DA's office, which was excellent. I, there's fewer more fulfilling jobs than work in a prosecutor's office. But since being in law school, I've really enjoyed a lot of the land and business transactional classes a lot more than I thought, which has caused me to question maybe some of the long-term goals I want.
Jeremy
Yeah, it's, it's good to keep kind of an open mind because you... I don't think students should feel compelled to this. I, you know, this is what I want to do, and I have to stick with it because you're learning so much about the law, you, if you keep an open mind and remain curious, I think sometimes you can find your calling along the way in law school.
So, I think, I think that's great Drew. As far as the St Andrews trip, any recommendations on what future students in the academy should pack or bring or do other than eat at Little Italy?
Drew
Yeah, I think there's, the big thing is there's a lot of opportunities there. And the program requires time and commitment, but don't - some people got a little too caught up in the program and never actually ended up going out in the evenings or enjoying the other, the other people in the program. So, the biggest recommendation would be, if you're there, take advantage of the people and the professors who have given up their time.
There's a lot of students from other schools and it’s a really unique opportunity to engage with them in a noncompetitive, competitive manner and just be able to kind of learn and fellowship with a bunch of other lawyers.
Jeremy
Yeah, I love, I was there for a little while. We saw each other there, this summer. I love being there. And you know what my favorite thing about St Andrews in July and August is?
Drew
It's not 105?
Jeremy
That's correct. That is correct.
Drew
That's, that's about right. Yeah. And that, that goes, that's something you should pack is bring a raincoat, a good raincoat because it's going to rain. Yeah. And there's nothing like being soaking wet and having to sit through class while you're drenched.
Jeremy
Yeah. It's been, the weather's been surprisingly good while we've been there. I mean, we've been going now for, since 2013. And some of, some of the days are just glorious. I mean, bright and sunny and 70, 72 degrees. It's incredible. I, I miss it so much. Okay. We've now come to the lightning round.
Drew
All right?
Jeremy
The questions are strange and silly, and your answers must be short. Okay?
Drew
Okay.
Jeremy
Favorite study break snack.
Drew
It's going to be Kit Kats.
Jeremy
Good answer. Besides an email app or a messaging app, what is the most used app on your phone?
Drew
Spotify.
Jeremy
Favorite childhood TV show?
Drew
Cyberchase on PBS.
Jeremy
Never heard of it. If you had to give a Ted talk on something that's not related to law school or the law, what would the topic be?
Drew
That's a good one. Probably, my faith.
Jeremy
If you could time-travel to any decade, which one would you visit?
Drew
I think I'd love to go back, like 1880s and go in the Wild West.
Jeremy
Favorite guilty pleasure TV show.
Drew
Big, Bonanza, Rifleman would be one.
Jeremy
I love The Rifleman.
Drew
It's good. Lucas McCain's hard to beat.
Jeremy
Yeah, I like that. I watch that. What's your favorite local restaurant?
Drew
Probably Kitok’s.
Jeremy
Good answer. Coffee or tea?
Drew
I recently gone to tea because I've been told that I drink too much caffeine.
Jeremy
So, you know, tea has caffeine in it.
Drew
Well, caffeine free.
Jeremy
Well, there’s caffeine free coffee. Okay Drew, I understand that you have a question or two for me.
Drew
I do. So, I know you've been here. I wouldn't say for a long time, but for a period of time. And now that you're dean, I wanted to ask you, how have you seen the impact Baylor law has changed over your time as both a professor and now as a dean?
Jeremy
Yeah. And so, at this point, I've been on the faculty here for a little over 20 years, 22 years. I've been the dean at this point for 15 months. And so that's how far kind of my perspective as a member of the faculty goes. I am, I am as proud of the things that haven't changed as I am as of the things that have developed and for the better.
One thing that hasn't changed, and this is, this is something I'm really proud of, is that the faculty remains committed. Their focus is preparing students to be successful in the legal profession, preparing them for the practice of law. Now, what that looks like is a little different now than it was 22 years ago.
I think, just for example, artificial intelligence comes along, lawyers are using that. We've, part of now preparing students for the practice of law is acknowledging that we need to teach our students how to effectively and ethically use artificial intelligence. And what do those, what are those tools and how do you use them? Just a couple of other observations that I think are really positive.
The, the life in our student organizations, it seems to me, is and their activities, is as strong as I've ever seen it. I'm really proud of that. The summer international programs we have, they've been around for a while, but they're really thriving right now. And I think they're, in the case of both of our programs, the Zambia program in sub-Saharan Africa and the Academy of the Advocate in St Andrews, Scotland, that you were just you and I were just talking about, they're doing a lot of good for our students, but at the same time, they're giving students a great cultural experience, and they're just fun.
You know, they're just fun. And I think, I think that's a, a really positive thing. The other thing, in my twenty plus years here, is just the change in the faculty. I mean, over 20 years of faculty is going to change in composition, but I think it's as strong as it has ever been. And that's something that I think sets the law school up for success way out into the, way out into the future.
And those are things that I'm happy about. What, what do you, what do you think about when you think about how the law school's impact has changed? Do you have something in mind?
Drew
Like you said, I think it's been relatively consistent. And I know they say it all the time, but even when I was looking at law schools, every person I talked to, the character of Baylor Law since my parents have been here, is they produce practice-ready advocate attorneys that are going to kick some tail in the courtroom no matter where they go.
And it's good to see that's been maintained in the field. In my personal experience, that's been maintained.
Jeremy
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think what we want to do is make sure students have a lot of career options, are ready for the practice of law, and certainly including being trial lawyers. I mean, that's, that's definitely something that we want our students to have the option to be successful at and our history says they certainly do.
Jeremy
So, Drew. Appreciate it. Great chatting with you. Thanks a lot for coming on the show.
Drew
Thank you for having me on the show.
Jeremy
Yeah. You're welcome.
