Counseller's Corner - Gia Lewis
Dean Jeremy Counseller is joined by second-year Baylor Law student Gia Lewis, who shares her unique journey to law school, overcoming imposter syndrome, and the challenges of a rigorous academic environment. Gia discusses how her retail experience developed key interpersonal skills for legal practice and about her work revitalizing Baylor Law School’s First-Generation Law Student Organization to create a supportive community.
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TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy
I'm Jeremy Counseller, dean of Baylor Law school. And welcome to the Counselor Corner podcast. I am very pleased to be joined today by second year law student Gia Lewis.Gia, Welcome to the podcast.
Jeremy
Talk to me just a little bit about your journey to law school and a little bit about your, the background that led you here.
Gia
Yeah. So I will start by saying law school was never really on my radar. So I went into undergrad, I went to UT, and I actually went in thinking I was going to go into med school, so I was pre-med track. Covid kind of came along, changed things for me. I had to sit down, really think about what I wanted, and for a while I didn't really know.
So for a while I thought I would go into administration, thought about teaching, and then my mom actually sat me down. Was the one who was like, you should be a lawyer. Like, I think you have really good skills of people. You know, you're a good writer. And so after some time reflecting, that's what I came to decide.
And so I took an off year, year after undergrad, took the outside, applied to Baylor, and I'm here and I'm really happy about it.
Jeremy
What else did you do in your off year?
Gia
Yeah, so I worked at Anthropologie actually. I was a part time manager at the store, which I really loved. I love clothes a lot, and I loved working retail because you never really know, like, who you're going to encounter. And it was like, really challenging for me at first to like, interact with individuals and not know what you're going to get day to day, but it really exposed me to a lot of different things, and I think actually helped me prepare for law school.
Jeremy
How so?
Gia
I would say, like interacting with clients, right? You never know what your client needs. And just being like empathetic and also just being able to like, manage so many different things at once, but also be present when someone I think it just really helped with those people skills for me. Yeah.
Jeremy
So yeah, that's great. I mean, we, we serve people as lawyers. It's a, it's a, it's a people business. So I think that connection you've made, it is true. And it has a lot of significance. So you’re a second year law student now, you finished your first year. What was the biggest challenge of your first year of law school?
Jeremy
You think academically? I mean.
Gia
Yeah, I think just being in such a competitive environment was very challenging for me. I think you're always like competing in school. Right. But Baylor, it's a smaller school. There's, it's so rigorous. And it was very difficult to me because I felt like I'm doing all the things I need to do. And I still wasn't getting those results I really wanted.
Gia
And I couldn't help but compare myself to my peers, and it was very difficult for me to get out of that. I never really encountered, like imposter syndrome or anything before, but being here, it was like the first time I really did. So I think just like accepting that that's kind of part of the experience sometimes and really having like a growth mindset, I would say.
Gia
So just from there, really trying to sit down and focus on what I needed. And from there I was able to really build great connections with my professors and adapt. And I think that was definitely like my biggest challenge.
Jeremy
Talk more about imposter syndrome. What that is, because I think a lot of people feel that in.
Gia
In school. Yeah. I think imposter syndrome, the best way to describe is just feeling like you're not meant to be here. And for me, I just in comparing myself to my peers, I'm seeing them doing the things I'm doing. And I'm like, why is it not working for me? But it's working for them. And so I think it's very real experience.
I think a lot of people go through it for different reasons. I am a first gen student, and it was never something that really weighed down on me or bother me, but I think this was the first environment where I really sat down and thought about it, and it made me feel insecure. But I think just accepting those feelings and learning like it's okay to not be where I hope to be and that I can still grow really helped me.
And I think having this growth mindset has made my law school experience so much more enjoyable, but it actually makes me enjoy the challenges I face in class. Like sometimes if I don't understand, that's okay because I will get there and that's something to look forward to.
Jeremy
Well, and you've actually done something about that. In my understanding, you have helped to form the first generation law student organization.
Gia
Yeah.
Jeremy
Talk about that.
Gia
Yeah. So the org actually was in place last year. It just wasn't very active. And so going into this year, I really wanted to have like an org where we could meet together just students and I think share those experiences because I know like myself last year I was very stressed all the time. I mean, I would go and cry in professors’ offices and stuff, and I think sometimes it's hard to talk about that with people.
Gia
And so I wanted to really give like a voice to students. So, I, along with another student, Curtis Hilton, we have brought the group back together and it's been really exciting. We've had, one event kind of prepping for firm connections, and it was like a practice mixer teaching like etiquette and all the different things you wouldn't necessarily think of when you go, is that the.
Jeremy
Is that the one Anita Heiskell…?
Gia
Yes, yes. And then, we've had a general meeting just, you know, hearing what students want to ask, know and kind of bridging those gaps with students and professors. So yeah.
Jeremy
Yeah. So I was a first generation college grad too. And when I came to law school, I had a lot of the same feelings that you're describing. I was not familiar with the term imposter syndrome. I don't know if it existed at the time or not. But it would have been really helpful to me to have an organization like the first gen organization that you've revived, because there can be a feeling of, I'm alone in this and you're not.
Jeremy
Yeah. I mean, and it's a cliche, but misery loves company. And as soon as you have come, other people are feeling the same way. You feel a lot better.
Gia
Yeah, it definitely makes you feel better. I mean, I remember, like, being a first year student and everyone's telling you, like, it gets better and you're in the moment, right? You are receptive to that. And so it was very crazy to me to have our meeting and have students talking about like, I feel this way. I'm really stressed and I'm like, you know, you're in that moment.
And I understand, like it really was like a full circle moment for me, I think. And just it made me happy. We had talk because knowing now what I know, it makes me excited to help students who are in that place. So yeah.
Jeremy
Talk more about the the, you mentioned this event, the networking event and the etiquette event with, Anita Heiskell. Talk more about that event, because that seemed to be very well received by the students.
Gia
Yeah. So we partnered with Dean Bridges as well as miss Katherine Sims. And we just kind of were thinking about like, things we had went through as first year students. And what came to mind was firm connections, because firm connections is like that first instance where students really get to network and meet law firms and all those different things.
But I remember going into firm connections and I was like, I have no idea what to ask. When we're eating food. like, how do you handle that? Like, there was just so many things I didn't know. And while the CDO does a great prep for us, I think it would have been really nice to have got that experience beforehand.
Gia
And so we really focused on creating an environment like that. And we had Miss Anita Heishkell come, and she led basically a seminar for the students in which they were taught some different etiquette rules, and then they got to practice that with their peers, which is also really nice because I think you're comfortable with your peers. So if you mess up, it's the perfect place to have that first opportunity.
Jeremy
I completely agree, and I and I love that the organization is doing that. I can remember, as you mentioned. So you start to network with law firms and, you know, in search for your job and it’s like we're at a meal, I don't know which fork to use. I mean, what's this one up here on the top of the plate for, and which one's bread and which one's drink and all that.
I also remember when it came time for the in school moot court competition, I didn't know how to tie a tie. Yeah, like stuff like that. I didn't.
Gia
Really know. Yeah.
Jeremy
And so somewhere there, my classmates, some of them anyway, have a memory of my moot court partner standing in front of me and tying a tie, or both of us standing in front of a mirror, and he's showing me how to do it. And at the time it was really stressful. Looking back, I wouldn't trade those experiences for anything.
Yeah. So all that stuff I think is truly stressful at the time. It becomes a joy and a strength down the road, but that your organization is getting into that space, I think is fantastic and I, I commend you for it. My understanding is you're also involved in balsa. Talked about what balsa is. It's an acronym, but what the organization is about.
Gia
So balsa stands for Black Law student association. And basically it's just a space for like black law students to come together. We do a lot of social events, but we also have a lot of academic support within each other. Dean Espree, she's new this year, and she's been really great just coming in and also giving us like just a great like faculty support I think.
But yeah, balsa is very much so. I would say focus on just supporting and sharing what it's like to be a black law student because, you know, we're minorities. And I think sometimes it can just be a little uncomfortable, I think, to be so obviously different from your other students and peers. And so I think balsa has just been a great environment, especially for me.
I can say, like when I was struggling last year, and even now when I struggle in school, it's nice to go and have people that are the same as me. And you know, I can relate to them.
Jeremy
Balsa also puts on some events for the broader law school community, particularly during Black History Month. Can you talk about some of those activities?
Gia
Yeah. So right now we have a like a screen together and it's showing some MLK speeches as well as books. And that's really great because you know, we know about MLK like on a surface level. But Sam Smith does a really great job of just teaching us further things about that the general public doesn't know. Likewise, we're going to have a event come in for a PDP.
This man is going to come and speak to us. He's a lawyer, and he focuses on the victims who were affected by the situation in Tulsa. And he's going to be really great. I hope it's going to be a great event for everyone to come. You're going to be there as well, I heard, so I'm very excited. But yeah, I think also just does a great job of, you know, giving outreach and not only for black students.
I think all students, but we are focused on black students and making sure that they feel comfortable in their experience. You know, dealing with things like imposter syndrome and how that also intersects with our identity as black students and things like that. So yeah, just being support.
00:10:13:16 - 00:10:34:21
Jeremy
Yeah, I'm looking forward to the to the event you mentioned. I'm going to participate in that. What what advice would you give to, you know, students out there who are thinking about law school, maybe Baylor Law School, but just going to law school in general, particularly those who might be first generation, law students like you first generation college grads.
Gia
Yeah. I think the advice I would give is don't be afraid to network and ask questions. Like, I am a very shy person. I will say because of that too, it kept me from going out asking those basic questions I had even before law school. And I think that's something that can really help with imposter syndrome, because you also come in against people who have a little more background, have more experience and resources, and there are people out there who want to help first gen students who just want to help students in general and really take advantage of those resources, take advantage of those people, because what may seem like a silly question, it's not going
Gia
to be. Someone's always going to be receptive and want to help you. So I definitely would encourage students reach out to anyone you meet who wants to support you. And they will.
Jeremy
You you you mentioned that you're shy. You're also very poised right now. But, I think a lot of people come to law school and they think, well, I'm going to be a lawyer, and therefore I need to be very gregarious and kind of this big personality. And I can't be an introvert, and I can't be sure.
Jeremy
And that's just really not true because there's so many different ways to practice law, participate in the legal profession. I mean, it takes all types of personalities to excel, excel in, in the, in the profession. What do you think the future holds for you after law school? What are your career ambitions?
Gia
So I hope to go into insurance defense. That's what I did last summer and that's what I'll be doing this summer. I'm very excited about it. I know it sounds a little boring. It's insurance and contracts, so I think it's quite fun. So that's what the future holds for me. I'm very excited about it.
Jeremy
So litigation?
Gia
Yes, litigation. It'll be fun. I know I'm shy, like I said. But I don't know, when I get in a courtroom, I feel a little more comfortable and I feel like I step into, like a different role almost in a sentence. So it's very fun to me.
Jeremy
I wouldn't want to be on the other side of you. I wouldn't want to do that.
Gia
Yeah, I wouldn't be on the I wouldn't want to be on the other side of you.
Jeremy
They would because they would hate me in comparison to you. Okay. We have a lightning round. Okay, so here's some lightning round questions. If you could live anywhere in the world for a year, where would it be and why?
Gia
I think I would want to live in Italy because then I could eat for a full year Italian food and not feel guilty about it, and travel and look at history and all of that.
Jeremy
Yeah, I think that's a great answer. If you could instantly master one hobby or sport, what would it be?
Gia
Oh, I wish I could draw. Like, I really wish I could draw.
Jeremy
Yeah. So you can’t? Neither can I. Favorite childhood TV show or movie?
Gia
That's a good question. I okay, my favorite childhood movie. Still favorite movie is this 1940 movie. Rebecca. It's really good. I don't know if you're familiar, but…
Jeremy
I'm not. I'm writing it down. That was a surprising answer.
Gia
Yeah.
Jeremy
Intriguing. Yeah. 1940.
Gia
1940, black and white.
Jeremy
It has sound and all that?
Gia
It has sound. Yeah, but it's an old one.
Jeremy
Okay. Are you a morning person or a night owl?
Gia
I am a morning person.
Jeremy
Favorite restaurant in Waco?
Gia
In Waco? I love Cajun craft. It's my.
Jeremy
Favorite.
Jeremy:
I do too.
Gia
It's my favorite. It's so good
Jeremy:
I do too.
Gia:
I can't find a good gumbo, but, like, Waco of all places. Yeah.
Jeremy
Fantastic. Fantastic answer. Okay, if you could have any animal as a pet. Not a dog, not a cat, not a goldfish. What would you pick a monkey?
Gia
Because they're so cute and they kind of dangle around. They've got good character, you know? They're interesting.
Jeremy
Okay. I don't like that as much as the Cajun craft answer. Yeah, monkeys kind of scare me. And I think they should scare you a little more than they do. All right, I understand you have a question for me.
Gia
Yes, I have a question. So what would you say in your legal career was your biggest failure? And how did you kind of navigate that? How did that shape your career going forward?
Jeremy
Biggest failure. This is not a dodge the question. I've had a number of failures. I mean, I've I've lost cases. And I don't, how did I handle it? I would just say time heals all wounds. It's just if you, we said, you know, it takes different all kinds of personalities can be a lawyer. But the one thing we tend to have in common is we don't want to lose.
We don't want to lose. But, if certainly if you're going to be in litigation, there are going to be times when you lose. And I think you have to learn to take it in stride and, unfortunately, the way you learn to take it in stride is you. You lose. Yeah. You know, but, yeah, there's all there's all sorts of situations.
Jeremy
If I could, you know, people always say, I don't have any regrets. I got some regrets. You know, if I could go back and do things differently, I would. I would do them differently. But, Yeah. There. I think time heals all wounds. And I also, in terms of how you handle it, it's important to keep perspective on what really matters in your life.
And one of the things that I try to remind myself is, and we actually we actually talk about this around law school, recently, is, you, you want to try to be joyful. And the way to be joyful is to be grateful for the things that are good and positive in your life. And it's the gratitude that leads to the joy, not the joy that leads to the gratitude you know that you like.
I'm grateful because I have joy. No, you're going to have some joy because you're grateful. And so even in those times where you're taking some losses to kind of have that moment where you say, you know, I lost this case or this other thing went wrong, but here are the things in my life that are good and that I'm grateful for.
And I think it puts it all in perspective.
Gia
Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Thank you.
Jeremy
Thank you. Gia. It's been it's been great. I think it's been delightful to have you.
Gia
Yes, I had a great time. Thank you for having me.
Jeremy
Good. Yeah. Thanks a lot.
