Counseller's Corner - Christian Parker
From Law to Lyrics – Christian Parker’s Journey Beyond the Courtroom
Baylor Law School graduate Christian Parker shares his bold decision to pursue a music career in Nashville while keeping his legal connections strong. He discusses his upcoming third album, Scales and Strings, which explores the balance between law and passion. Christian also talks about the value of a law degree, his future plans, and the support he's received from Baylor Law School and legal professionals. Plus, a fun lightning round reveals his favorite Waco restaurant, dream pet, and more. Don't miss this inspiring conversation about chasing dreams and keeping doors open!
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TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy
Hi, I'm Jeremy Counseller, dean of Baylor Law school. And welcome to a special cowboy hat edition of the Counseller, Counsellers Corner podcast. It's a cowboy hat edition because I am joined today by my guest, third year law student and country music singer songwriter Christian Parker. Christian. Welcome to the podcast. I'm just curious, when did the interest in law school versus the interest in country music start?
Christian
Well, it's good to be here, Dean. Counselor, I appreciate you having me on. The answer to that is that I've always loved music. Right. You know, I, I've played music my entire life. My mom started me on piano when I was in second grade. And so, you know, plucking around. But I always want to play guitar, and so guitar started in around fourth grade.
And then, ironically, also I played the tuba. Oh, yeah. Two-time All-State tuba player in the state of Arkansas. Yeah. And I did that through college. I was I marched in the band and everything like that.
Jeremy
Have you incorporated tuba into any of your songs?
Christian
You know, I look that up one time. I go, is there a country song that involves a tuba? And the only thing that I could find was a bit on Hee Haw. Now, for all the viewers of this show over the age of 60, they'll really appreciate the good Hee Haw.
Jeremy
I know Hee Haw and I'm not over 60. Just so you know. You remember who's the guy? This is one of the greatest guitarists of all time is on Hee Haw, the.
Christian
yes., Roy Clark.
Jeremy
Roy Clark. Yeah. Sorry, I forgot his name. Yeah.
Christian
Incredible guitarist. He, Jerry Reed, Glen Campbell, all those guys are some of the most underrated guitarists. . And I think a lot of people wrote them off as just kind of being this, you know, act for a show. But if you look at the technical brilliance it required to do that, it was truly spectacular.
Jeremy
So maybe don't discount the role of the tuba in future country music, correct? Correct.
Christian
Well.
Jeremy
Could be your signature sound.
Christian
It could be, it could be. And when I do that, I'll be sure to put you in the credits for it.
Jeremy
Thank you.
Christian
And get.
Jeremy
Some ideas. Yeah. Maybe as a co writer as well. Yeah. Featuring anything with you and the tuba. I should get a writing credit.
Christian
I think so, and you know, if you want to, we can probably. I'll bring you out to Nashville and we can get you to sing on a song too
Jeremy
I'm in, I mean, as long as you don't want it to sell or anything. Okay, so the, the interest in country music that predates, obviously, law school. I'm wondering when you come to law school, it's a full plate and then some law school itself. What did that do to your the performing arts side of you?
Christian
Well, I would say the interest in law school was was always there. I come from a family of attorneys. My grandfather was a criminal defense attorney in the state of Arkansas. My father was an attorney, kind of a general practitioner. And, you know, in Arkansas, they call it threshold law because you're just doing whatever comes through.
Christian
Comes through the door because market isn't big enough to really kind of specialize in all sorts of things. But so growing up, the importance of a law degree was really, really pushed inside my, my family. And, and the rationale behind it was, regardless of whether you ever practice, there is value in learning to think like a lawyer. It's very rational, logical.
Christian
And I know one of the big things here at Baylor, too, they talk about. And when I remember when I was going through admissions and talking to Katherine Sims and other people, she goes, you know, by the time you graduate from Baylor Law, whatever you do, you'll be confident stepping into whatever situation you have. And I think there's a lot of utility, a lot of value in getting a law degree.
Christian
But you're right, law school is certainly at Baylor. But I know law schools across the country. It it is a full plate. And so you have to be very purposeful with the time that you have. And actually, one of the reasons why I chose Baylor over other schools was that I liked that it was on a quarter system, because that would afford me more time to, have breaks.
Christian
You know, every nine weeks you get at a minimum a week off, depending on, depending on the quarter, obviously you have more time. And so I had recorded part of my first album prior to coming to law school. I put out my first single called shotgun in late February of 22, and then I was a summer starter.
Christian
You remember, you were my Civ Pro professor. And,
Jeremy
I do remember that.
Christian
Yeah, but I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but,
Jeremy
It's good for you.
Christian
I think I can recite the minimum context test. If we need to do that.
Jeremy
Then please do so.
Christian
If the defendant be not present within the territory, the for me of certain minimum contacts with it, such as maintenance, the suit does not fit traditional notions of fair play. It's natural justice.
Jeremy
Bingo. You're now you're you're in practice court or you're you're currently in prison. You finished practice court?
Christian
Yes, sir. I'm in my ninth quarter, and I'll be finishing practice court, this week.
Jeremy
Okay, so for those who don't know, practice court is a required third year program that focuses on evidence, procedure, advocacy, and ethics, and involves a lot of courtroom exercises where you try a case or a part of the case. And one of the things, that we try to instill in practice court is the importance of storytelling as a method of persuasion.
Jeremy
I'm wondering if you see a connection between your writing and singing of country music and storytelling as a form of persuasion in the courtroom?
Christian
Absolutely. It's actually fascinating in a lot of ways how much crossover there is with that. And of course, one of the first advocacy lectures you get in practice court is is talking about kind of the psychological thing that happens whenever people get engaged in a story. And I believe, first heard a little called it the didactic shift or something like that.
And to answer to this, I mean, you sit there and think about what is what is a song, right? And oftentimes the songs are just stories. You know, you're telling us, especially in country music, you know, you're telling the story of who is this person, what are they doing? You know, oh, I'm the cowboy out on the plains.
Or, you know, if I'm, if I'm the Dixie chicks, you know, I'm singing about, you know, hitting a guy in the face with a frying pan or things like that. And, there is power in storytelling because people can place themselves in the shoes of what's going on. And one of the things my producer, Sal Oliveri, taught me very early on about recording, because I never recorded music or anything, he said, especially in country music, people can smell B.S. yeah, and the same thing is true in the courtroom because as we're taught in practice court, trying a case is a credibility contest.
And the exact same thing is true in music. It's are you the person that is singing the song or are you putting on airs or you all hat no cattle? And the same thing is true with a jury. The jury can tell immediately whether you're trying to sell them a load of whatever or whether you're being sincere and you're passionate about your client.
And so I think there's a lot of crossover with that.
Jeremy
Yeah, I, I see that based on what you're saying is that, you know, in a song that I enjoy, it's saying something that's true. And the same is true of a good case to a jury. It's a lawyer saying something that that's true. You, you've you've done a lot of things here in law school. You were your, first year class president.
I think your third, your current class president. What made you interested in that and how has that experience been for you?
Christian
You know, I've always tried to get involved anywhere I go, you know, whatever situation you're in, I think you need to, get involved and and make the most of it and anything like that. And, of course, SBA, the student bar Association is, it's a good way to do that. And, I've always kind of been involved in, student government, things like that.
I was my high school, you know, school president, and I was the IFC president at SMU and just always kind of been involved in those things. And so I think that was the natural extension. And what that afforded me the ability to do is, I think, get to evaluate the law school or participate in it in a, a different role than maybe just going to lecture and, and taking exams and things like that.
And I've enjoyed it. Made a lot of a lot of friends, helped plan a lot of things. We did the, faculty auction, which I've been the auctioneer for that, the past three years. And I've really enjoyed getting to do that. I, I didn't I didn't think I would be capable of talking that fast, but.
Jeremy
Talk about what the faculty auction is for people who know.
Christian
Okay, familiar? The faculty auction is one of my favorite events, and it's a thing that Baylor puts on every single year. And, it goes towards the benefit. It's always happens around Christmas time, and it goes towards the benefit of, Bells Hill Elementary School and all the proceeds go to charity. And so SBA will reach out to various faculty members.
I know you've participated. I know the past two years and your years last year was the highest grossing, event. And that was right after, I think it crossed over $1,000.
Jeremy
Is that a nice way of saying that this year? In my mind, wasn't the highest grossing.
Christian
You know.
Jeremy
It was.
Christian
The second highest. And I and I think second place is a good thing, you know, it shows that you made you, you know, there was interest in your event. But unfortunately, Professor Bates mystery night may have.
Jeremy
Well,
Christian
And I think just the allure of of spending time with Professor Bates doing that. Anyway, the faculty will. Okay, we'll put on events and then people can bid on it, and it's a good way for the students to meet the faculty.
Jeremy
No, it's a great it's a great event for for a great cause. Appreciate you. You working on. That's just one thing that SBA does that's really valuable. And I, I think it's one of those organizations that lets the students see the law school from a broader, get a bigger picture of the law school and everything that's, that's going on.
Why do you think you mentioned civil procedure? The civil procedure course I taught you during your first term in law school. Why do you think I called on you so much?
Christian
Well, you know, I have a I have, I have theories about this. I think it's that I was just so funny, man. And you're a guy.
Jeremy
Who was I laughing at any point?
Christian
Well, you know, I think there was suppressed laughter. Okay. And maybe it was at the joke. Maybe it was at me. And. And I'm not sure that I really want to know the answer to that. Okay. But you have incredible comedic timing. I will say that anybody who comes to Baylor law, you know, you can look forward to the classic Counseller bits because there's there's classic bits and they become part of the lore.
And, and really, no Baylor law education is complete without knowing what it means to slap the bear versus kill the bear.
Jeremy
That is important. I, you know, some of the people who listen to this podcast are probably future Baylor law students. So I don't want to spoil that particular part about slapping and versus killing killing bears. We'll save that for the classroom, and hopefully the curiosity about that will cause them to come to come to Baylor Law School. I want to come back just briefly to the country music aspect of your multifaceted life.
Jeremy
What songs do you turn to? Maybe some of your own, but but even those of other artists, what songs do you turn to for stress relief or, relaxation while you're in law school?
Christian
That's an interesting question. Obviously it depends kind of on what's going on and things like that. But some of the artists that I take a lot of enjoyment and listening to and comfort, I love Glen Campbell. Glen Campbell is, I think, probably my favorite country artist from Delight, Arkansas. So a fellow Arkansan, incredibly virtuosic guitar player.
Christian
But my favorite song of hers is Wichita Lineman, and it's a song that I heard for the first time, you know, sometime in my youth. And the lyrics have always just stuck with me because it's talking about this guy who, you know, he's a he's a lineman and, working on the power lines, and he hears a, he hears a woman in the, in the telephone lines, and there's some beautiful lyrics in there.
Christian
I need you more than I want you. And I want you for all time. I mean, what a what a powerful statement there. But I. I, I love rock music. I listen mostly actually to rock growing up. It wasn't really till I got to Texas that I really got interested in country music and kind of exploring that, I love, you know, I'm right now I'm on a Steely Dan kick, which is kind of interesting because they're just there.
Christian
The music there is fantastic, but lyrics wise, I mean.
I mean, there's just so many songs, so you could, you can think of an artist, you can, you can pull from. But I think specifically to answer your question, you have to take time in the midst of law school to step away from the law and give yourself time to reconnect with yourself. And recognize sometimes that there's a world outside of Baylor law, and sometimes that can be difficult.
But nonetheless, it's it's critical and important.
Jeremy
Yeah, learning to balance those things, I think, is one of the key things to learn in law school. You are coming to the end of your time in law school. I remember having you in civil procedure that summer, it seems. It really does seem like a month ago. From my perspective, it probably seems like a longer journey for you, but it goes by quickly.
I'm curious. You may not know, but what are your plans after law school? And in particular, do you plan to stay in Texas or go to Ark, back to Arkansas or elsewhere?
Christian
You know, the one of the great things about having a law degree is that affords you a lot of opportunities. Of course, now that we have the ubuntu, I mean, you can get a license.
Jeremy
A uniform bar exam.
Christian
Yeah. You know, you can get, license in so many states. My, my immediate plans are, I do have this dream. I have this passion to go make and make and perform music. Whether that hits, whether it doesn't. I don't want to be at a stage in my life 20 or 30 years from now, where I'm sitting here asking, what if?
And so with that. So to answer your question directly, I'm going to Nashville. Putting together, I think I'm going to do a third album. This is the first time this has ever been announced on anything, but I think I'm going to do a third album, and it's actually going to be called, I believe, Scales and Strings. Because it, it's, it's going to be a discussion between, you know, look, you, you're giving up scales for strings, you know, referring to the scales of justice and then obviously starting someone guitar.
And I think it's, it's kind of part of the part of the focus is going to be discussing, you know, you, you have this whole thing here, which is, you know, you know, white collar profession, something that a lot of people seek out and then, you know, but but you got to go chase the dream. Yeah. Now this scares the heck out of my mom because she's going, you know what?
You just went through all this. You spend all the time, the money. You know what?
You do doing here. And then one of the good things about this is that I made some fantastic connections with people at Baylor. And, particularly in the Dallas area, which is where I went to undergrad at. And I think I would like to, end up at maybe someday. And I've made some connections at some firms, and the partners at the firms are very understanding and encouraging of this dream I have.
And they said, you know, hey, we're still going to need work. And so I think I got to maintain those relationships. But hey, and two years from now, if I've been out in Nashville and I say, hey, this isn't the life I want, I still have the opportunity to come back. And I don't think you're so far removed from law school that you would have forgotten maybe everything I.
Jeremy
Say go get a man. I mean, because, because you're right. You don't want to look back and wonder what might have been, you know? Yeah. You want to go? Go get ‘em. Okay. Lightning round, you have to answer, quickly. If you could live anywhere in the world for a year, where would it be? And why?
Christian
Why would you ever want to not live in the great state of Texas?
Jeremy
Good answer. If you could instantly master one hobby or sport, what would it be?
Christian
Oh, I wish I was a better guitar player, but I you're probably looking for something more novel than that. I think it would be really cool to just randomly be very good at chess. Oh, that's. You know.
Jeremy
That's a good one. Yeah. Are you a morning person or a night owl?
Christian
Well, practice court has made me a morning person, but I would say my default is, is a night owl.
Jeremy
Got to be flexible. All right. Favorite restaurant in Waco?
Christian
Baris.
Jeremy
I like that answer.
Christian
I've seen you there a couple times.
Jeremy
Have you? Yeah. I've not seen you there. I'm sorry. If you if you could have any animal as a pet, not a dog or a cat or a goldfish, what would you pick?
Christian
An elephant.
I think that'd be pretty cool. You know.
Jeremy
Other.
Christian
Impractical. But I think it would be good.
Jeremy
You know, mine's a killer whale. Really? Yeah, but I don't want a cage him up. But I have to, It has to be like a pet that was free to live in the ocean. Yeah. Would come visit me when I want. You want to for sure. Situation? Yeah, I want, I want the I’m already free. I understand you have a question for me.
Christian
I do have a question for.
Jeremy
Okay.
Christian
And, and I think this is important not just for, you know, just understanding more about you, but I think this will end up applying to a lot of students once they get out. Now, you have been a professor at Baylor Law since 2003. You were in private practice then. Then you started as an assistant professor in 2003. And you've, you've worked, you've been here, you've worked your way up.
Obviously, now you're the dean of the law school during that time. You must have and I know you did confer, you know, or started and maintained a lot of friendships with colleagues, faculty, staff that are, that are still here. Some of which have been here longer than you have. Yeah. Some of here, some of which have more tenure or something like that.
And once you moved from your role as a tenured professor and practice court professor to dean, you assume new responsibilities. And that necessarily has to change in some way the relationships that you have with your colleagues who knew you as a friend, fellow professor, and now you're, now you're their boss. And I think law students, if they go out in the practice maybe you start with a cohort of fellow associates.
And because they're Baylor lawyers they're going to excel very quickly. And maybe they make partner before everybody else. And now you have responsibilities, and it changes that relationship. I guess my question then is how do you navigate being someone, being over being the boss of people that used to be your equal, your friends, and if or when that necessarily conflicts, how do you manage your duties to the institution versus your maybe your desire to maintain a friendship?
Jeremy
Yeah. Well, the first thing you do after becoming Dean is you go door to door to all your friends on the faculty and you go, hey, I'm your boss now. And don't you forget it. That's step number one. No, I, I don't sometimes some of my colleagues will say, hey, boss, but I can tell they're being sarcastic. I mean, one thing about, our faculty is that it's very collegial.
We don't we make decisions by consensus. There's most everything we do is something that that we've discussed. And so a lot of times, the role of the dean is not to make the decision, but to sort of frame the issue for discussion. And we proceed by, by consensus. That's not to say that there aren't decisions that have to be made, but everyone here would agree.
All decisions should be made in the interest of what is best for Baylor Law School, rather than an individual member of the faculty or staff. And I think if you keep that as your, your guide, you can, you can move forward. I also think it's important that people feel like they get a chance for input, that they get a chance to say what they think about an issue.
And then even if the decision goes in a different direction, I think most of the time people will say, well, I got my, my chance to say something. And I may not agree with the decision, but I can live with it because I was able to, to provide input. I feel like I was heard, that it was that it was considered.
And so I hope to have that, that kind of an environment. But, the, the truth is, I mean, a lot of people, the smart people, don't want to be the dean of a law school. I mean, that that's the other thing. I mean, it's not it's not like I beat people out. They just they don't they don't want to do it.
So, it isn't it isn't as sort of maybe competitive as, as you might think. But I will say it's a tremendous privilege to, to be the dean. I, I try to remind myself of that every day of just what a privilege it is to be a part of the institution. And, and now to be the dean is, just been a, been a real, privilege.
I'll leave it there. Christian, thanks so much, man. This has been really interesting to see you. Graduation. Absolutely.
Christian
Yeah. And the invocation.
Jeremy
Oh, I am you are, I am. Okay, all right. You're giving the invocation? Very.
Christian
Nobody knows how the heck they let me do that. All right.
Jeremy
Remember, it's not a speech. It's a prayer. Yes. Right. Don't be speaking at God. That's. That's really important.
Christian
I would, I would never attempt to, to do, speech at the Unmoved Mover.
Jeremy
Others have. Others have. Thanks, man.
Christian
Appreciate it so much. Appreciate
