Counseller's Corner - Cagan Baldree

Second-year Baylor Law School student Cagan Baldree speaks with Dean Jeremy Counseller about his journey to law school. After growing up in East Texas and playing football at Texas A&M, Cagan struggled to find a career path until he became interested in government and politics. He consequently earned a master’s degree from the Bush School at A&M, and after a brief experience in municipal administration, he decided law school would be the best course for the next stage of his career. As a married father of three, Cagan also offers insight into the challenges of balancing family responsibilities with the rigorous demands of law school.

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TRANSCRIPT

Jeremy

Hi. Welcome to Counselor's Corner. I'm Jeremy Counseller, dean of Baylor Law School, and I am delighted today to be joined by second-year law student Cagan Baldree. Welcome, Cagan.

Cagan

Yes, sir. Thank you for having me, Dean Counselor. It's great to have you. My first question is the most important question. What is your favorite course that you've taken in law school so far?

Jeremy

And why is it the civil procedure course that I taught you?

Cagan

Well, it's the most memorable because it's the first one. You know, you got to break the seal as you first come in, y'all. You'll make sure to ensure that all the one Q’s come in on 8 a.m. that first Monday morning. And then you're the first face we see.

Cagan

So you have those memories of the weekend before. And I think that that's probably consistent for most law students. The things you remember, the classes, everything that goes along with it. You know, you've got the time leading up. You know, I did. I read the right stuff. I'm not entirely sure. And then you get to the first class, and you may or may not have been the first one to get called. And so

Jeremy

Were you the first one? 

Cagan

I was no.

Jeremy

okay. 

Cagan

Was not? He only got me a couple times, but it was, I think a couple weeks down the line. 

Jeremy

How was that experience of being called on for the first time? 

Cagan

It was.  It's interesting because I had torts with Professor Underwood right after, at 9:20, and I was the first one called in that class because I made the mistake of emailing him, and we had a mutual friend.

Cagan

So he, he, he said, you knew this was coming, didn't you? I was like, I didn't know, but I know now not to make that mistake in the future. So. So I made it through that one. Yeah. 

Jeremy

So you tried to make a connection with him? 

Cagan

I did, and then he made a connection with you the next day in class.

Cagan

That's exactly it. 

Jeremy

Seems fair. 

Cagan

Yeah, it does seem fair. It does seem fair. I guess it's a lesson for any future law students that if you want to put yourself at risk, put yourself out there. That's, Otherwise, you may want to conceal yourself. 

Jeremy

It's worked out pretty well for, you know, Cagan down the road. So let's let's back up a little bit before law school and tell me kind of what were the things you were doing that led up to law school because you got a really interesting background.

Cagan

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So. So I grew up in East Texas. I enrolled at Texas A&M in 2016. So. So I was there, and I was a student-athlete. I played football and I played for five seasons. While I was there. I wasn't entirely sure when I got into school what the long term vision was going to be.

Cagan

I knew I had some interest areas, but what a career looks like was kind of unsure. So I pretty soon though, after I got there, I realized my interest in governance and policy and just how our structures institutions work publicly in our country. I started kind of down a policy track, and so I started economics.

Cagan

I got a masters at the Bush school, named after Bush 41 there at A&M as well. And so that was where my focus was while I was bouncing everything with football. And, when I graduated, I was I was married the year before I graduated to my wife and football kind of ended kind of unceremoniously. It was the last season was the Covid season.

Cagan

So it was kind of a weird transition out. I ended up just working in local government in Bryan, Texas, kind of at the regional level. And as to circle back to when I was in undergrad, I had a professor that kind of dropped the crumb of law school then, and I'd always kind of kept it around in the back of my mind.

Cagan

And as soon as I kind of started in that job, I enjoyed it. But I knew that I wanted something a little more specific, a little different, and that law school was the right path. And so those things kind of all kind of coalesced into, into making the decision to start applying and ended up here at Baylor. Yeah.

Jeremy

You mentioned that you're married. I also know you have three children. 

Cagan

Yes, sir. 

Jeremy

Tell tell us about your family. And also because I know you're justifiably very proud of them, but also how you balance that and the demands of law school. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So I, married to my wife, Sydney. We were married in 2020, so we actually had a Covid wedding as well.

Cagan

We were high school sweethearts, went to Texas A&M together and, had to have that experience, which was great. And, we had our first son in 2021. And, I also have a daughter that's in the middle. She's 18 months old now, and I just had my third two weeks ago at 9:30 when I was supposed to be taking a Crim Pro exam.

Cagan

So. So I had to postpone that a week or two the next week. 

Jeremy

But when you say you had, would your wife agree with that, that you had your third child? 

Cagan

You know, we're in this together, but wording it that way, it's probably not as precise as she would like, and I would tend to agree with her. It would be a fair correction on her part. 

Jeremy

Okay, but that being said, I've met your wife. I'm happy to reach out to her. She's she's delightful. But maybe she would back you up on. 

Cagan

Yes, sir. 

Jeremy

The that you had the baby. But the balance question, how do you do that?

Cagan

For sure. So I'd say first off, it's I count it as a, as a blessing, as a, as a boost to who I am as a law student because it allows me to, for one thing, leave the law school and truly have other things, that I have responsibilities with and priorities with, to be present with them.

Cagan

And so I don't have to live in this world 24 seven and constantly thinking over what we're doing. I have the time where I have to prioritize this and get the things I need to get done, but I get to go home and enjoy them and and the joy that they bring me. The and then the the other flip side of that is the motivation that they give me because as anybody knows, like, a student now,  I'm not working anymore.

Cagan

You know, there's financial restraints there. There's time constraints, there's stressors that you're adding. And being a student while also being a husband and a parent. And so I know that the time that I'm spending here has to be worthwhile. It has to be worthwhile for them because they're making sacrifices in the same way that I am. And so it keeps me grounded.

Cagan

It keeps my priorities straight. It allows me to compartmentalize, and know that I'm doing this for a reason, not just for my own career. Not so that I can have a flashy job one day or anything like that. I'm doing it because this is what we're doing as a family. This is the direction we're headed. This is the work that we're going to.

Cagan

This is the imprint I'm gonna put on the world on behalf of them. 

Jeremy

Yeah. So you and I see each other most mornings pretty early in the morning. You're here in the Student Success Center, and I'll walk past you and I both kind of get here early. Is your plan sort of treat law school like a job, like you're here sort of all day long. But when you're done in the evening, you're done. Is that is that what you do? 

Cagan

Yes, sir. Absolutely. So, practically, I do. I get up here a little bit an hour before 8 a.m. and, on most days, when I get up on time and, and my job, or at least my, my focus is to treat it like the job I had before I was here.

Cagan

It was a normal straightaway, 8 to 5 hour lunch during the middle of the day and kind of what I was referring to earlier.  Treating it that way, for one thing, it kind of keeps me in the straight and narrow, keeps me on the path because I know, well, if I don't get the readings done now, they're not going to get done.

Cagan

And so I don't have time to fiddle around. I don't have time to waste time in between class and and so when it's time to go to class, I'm in class. When I'm not in class, I'm here doing my readings and writings and getting things ready. And then when 5:00 hits, I head home and I'm present for all that time until the kids go to sleep and until Sydney  and I have some time together.

Cagan

If I have anything left. And I do it when everybody else goes to bed. But I think when when you stay ahead of it, each week, it definitely helps just doing it piece by piece as opposed to letting it all stack up on you. 

Jeremy

Well, it's certainly working for you because you were recently crowned the champion of the in School Moot Court competition, along with your partner.

Jeremy

So so congratulations on that. And I think it's also the schedule you just described is a is a schedule that I hear from a lot of lawyers out there practicing. So I think it's one that's sustainable. Talk to me about a couple things. What organizations if any, are you involved in here at the law school and what experience have you had in law school that's been sort of most impactful to you?

Cagan

Yes, sir. So, as far as organizations, I was just added to the moot court team to reference what you just did. So that would be my first experience. On a on a team outside the school against other schools. Like looking forward to that after the first of the year . But primarily in terms of organizations, I am the director of biblical studies for Christian Legal Society.

Cagan

And so, being a part of the leadership team, planning all those things, I'm also in charge of delivering devotionals on Fridays at lunch, which I thoroughly enjoy. And then I was recently joined the executive leadership team with, with federal society, as, kind of the alumni relations representative as well. And so that's where I've spent, most of my time.

Cagan

I've that was also to go back to the other things we've talked about in terms of time constraints and prioritizing things. I wanted to focus my time on the things I knew that I'll be most passionate about, and then give my all to those things, and then probably say no to everything else. And so the national teams, Christian Legal Society, that's like those are things that I would be passionate about.

Cagan 

And, I think that, the things that have been most impactful, I would say the weekly meetings of Christian Legal Society been great the entire time. It's where I've built the strongest relationships, and I've met a lot of really great people here at Baylor Law. And, and so I thoroughly enjoy being there weekly that are Christians who wear black shields and kind of go through this experience together and, and keep those things rightly in perspective to know why we're in school, what I'm ultimately doing this for.

Cagan

And so I would say those were some of the best memories of come, beyond even just in the Inter mural school competition was great as well. I know being a student-athlete, the competitive itch is still there. And so that aspect of the law and the legal career is something that attracted me. And getting a first kind of dip of the toe into actually getting in there and doing those things was, was really enjoyable.

Cagan

And, I'm really glad that we have to go through that as a part of that part. 

Jeremy

Well, you're good at it, obviously. Okay. Now we're going to move on to the lightning round here okay? Okay. So your answers have to be short in your opinion, what is the best restaurant in Waco? 

Cagan

The best restaurant in Waco is probably La Fiesta.

Cagan

Okay, your favorite TV show of all time. 

Cagan

Favorite TV show of all time? I'd probably say The Office. 

Jeremy

Good answer. Do you have a personal motto, scripture or quotation, or some phrase that you draw on for strength or inspiration? 

Cagan

Yes, sir. Philippians one six is the promise that God will bring about completion, the work that he began in us.

Cagan

And so knowing that we're working in progress and that he'll continue it and complete it is a great comfort to me. 

Jeremy

Your favorite novel or work of nonfiction of all time? 

Cagan

Okay. Novel or nonfiction? I actually just finished Lord of the Rings. And it would it would be those collected set is my favorite novel. So, at the top of my list for me.

Jeremy

In 15 seconds or less, describe your dream vacation. 

Cagan

Dream vacation. Okay, dream vacation would be to visit Rome and to enjoy kind of everything that that Rome has to offer. I've always would love that culture. And so that's that's where a week long vacation they're seeing, the Colosseum, Vatican, all those things would be really cool. 

Jeremy

Last of the Lightning round. What do you want to do with your law degree?

Cagan

I want to work and serve. I want to serve the state of Texas, the country broadly. I want to make it back to East Texas and serve my local community that I grew up in. That's what I'm really passionate about doing. And so finding areas of law that will be most impactful, there are going to be the thing that I'm going to be looking for when I leave.

Jeremy

Great. I understand you might have a question or two for me. 

Cagan

Yes, sir. So, my first one would be and first of all, we want to thank you on behalf of CLS and the student body as well. Since you've taken over, you have placed an emphasis on the Christian confession of Baylor, and you've had the Dean's devotionals that you've started in which we've loved.

Cagan

And, the prayer meeting we had on behalf of your starting off, I guess, in what point in the process did you realize that those were things that you wanted to introduce and make a priority when in you as you were selected and as you were transitioning in? And what's that been like? And as as the Dean? 

Jeremy

Well, I, I guess I'm drawing on my own experience as a law student.

Jeremy

I and one, one experience in particular when I was in law school. And you're well aware of this, you know, law school is a process of people throw you balls that you have to try to keep in there, that you have to try to juggle. And when I was in law school, I think one of the balls I decided to set down was an active faith life, just to be very candid about it.

Jeremy

And and what that resulted in for me was I remember one Easter when I was in law school, I said, well, it's Easter, I need to go to church. And I went to church and I sat in a church of great people, but I didn't know anybody, and I had never felt more lonely in law school than at that moment.

Jeremy

And I also then when I get back out in practice, I'm drawing on my faith to handle the stresses and strains. So here at Baylor Law School, we prepare students for the practice of law, and I think I wouldn't be doing right by all of our students if I didn't say, hey, for me, faith has been an important part of how to navigate the practice of law.

Jeremy

Having said all that, I you know, we welcome all students of all faiths. As you know, we have students of every, you know, every, every faith imaginable, and all of our faith activities are voluntary, of course. But, you know, for me, it's just part of who I am. And I want to be who I am.

Jeremy

And I'm grateful that Baylor is a place where I can be. you know who I am.

Cagan

I appreciate that. And then if they allow me one more, there's, 

Cagan

Jeremy 

Apparently they're allowing, you know, they haven't thrown us out yet you know.

Cagan

So so with civil procedure, the famous introductory course to, to the whole thing.

Cagan

Is it true that you have it scripted? Almost like a movie, just down to the minute, even with the student responses? Because that time there's that's the rumor that we could even go find a file where you have this with dialog and blanks filled in for the students, that down to the to the note to the minute. It's, it's not scripted.

Jeremy

But if you saw a transcript of civil procedure from one term and then saw transcript from the next term, it would look a lot alike, because I'm covering the same material and students’ responses aren't always the same, but they've all happened before. And so I respond to them in the same way. I mean, I think I've may have said to you first, when you've taught it as many times as I have, is sort of like Groundhog Day.

Jeremy

It's not the same thing over and over again. But what happens has happened before, you know? And so, yeah, it's sort of like being able to predict the future when you're standing in the class you've taught 60 times. 

Cagan

Yes, sir.  So, absolutely. Thank you for having me, 

Jeremy

Cagan, thank you so much. We're really proud of you.

Jeremy

You're going to be a great lawyer. 

Cagan

Yes, sir. Thank you. Dean Counselor. 

Jeremy

Thank you.