Counseller's Corner - Asna Poonawalla
Dean Jeremy Counseller speaks with Asna Poonawalla, a second-year Baylor Law School student whose journey to law school was shaped by personal tragedy and a desire to seek justice. Asna and Dean Counseller also discuss the human side of the legal profession, Baylor Law School’s supportive environment, life in Texas, internships, and the value of meaningful mentorship.
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TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy
Welcome to Counseller's corner. I'm Jeremy, Counseller, dean of Baylor Law School, and I am delighted to be joined today by Asna Poonawalla, a second year in Oh, excuse me, a third year law student now, currently in our famous slash infamous practice court program, which or people who don't know, a required third year, six month program that focuses on evidence, procedure and advocacy.
Jeremy
How is that going for you Asna?
Asna
You know, I was really scared coming into it. There isn't really a lot of information about what the program looks like other than that it's incredibly scary, apparently. So I was really nervous coming into it. And the first I think week took a lot of adjusting, but once that adjustment period kind of finished, it suddenly became a lot more manageable than I thought it would be.
Asna
So at the moment, it's going okay.
Jeremy
Okay, so where are you in the practice court process? What sorts of things are you doing right now?
Asna
At the moment? We're preparing for our big trial. So we just submitted our petitions last Friday.
Jeremy
What's a petition? Some people who are listening may not know you. You're just throwing these legal terms out now.
Jeremy
They've been ingrained on your soul. But what's a petition?
Asna
The petition is essentially the first pleading to, the court in Texas that essentially kickstarts the lawsuit. So Tony and I, Tony's my PC partner. We just, we're plaintiffs.
Jeremy
So you pretend sued somebody?
Asna
Yes. Okay. And so we pretend suited a, sued a, hospital for medical malpractice.
Asna
And right now, we are preparing for our depositions, which are going to happen the week after Thanksgiving. So at the moment, we're just going through all of the materials that we've been provided to kind of create like a timeline of the case. And really prepare what we think that the other side is going to depose our witnesses on and also try to come up with things that we want to depose their witnesses on.
Jeremy
How do you feel about how you talked about it? It can be a little scary. And I think that's a common, you know, especially at the beginning or right before practice court starts. But how do you feel in terms of what you're learning?
Asna
I think it's all really hands on and practical. It takes everything that we've learned in the past, like through one L and two L, and really puts it all together.
Asna
So these cases aren't really that we're looking at, aren't really limited to just contracts or just towards or just crim law. It can be really anything like, at the moment in PC3, we're learning about striking jurors for cause or, you know, if we have a panel and, what if a opposing counsel strikes all of the people of color?
Asna
What do you do? And some of these cases
Jeremy
What do you do?
Asna
You immediately object and make a Batson challenge.
Jeremy
This interview is turning into a quiz, and I am sorry for that, but you are doing wonderfully well.
Asna
Thank you. Thank you. Do you tell Professor Tilley that, But, it's the cases. What's really interesting to me aren't just limited to torts or or even just civil cases.
Asna
It's also criminal cases. So we're learning about how Batson impacts whether whether it's applicable in civil cases or criminal cases. And before you ask, it applies to both.
Jeremy
Very good, very good. So you've passed, which means we can continue. We can continue the interview. One of the things you have been really involved with here at the law school is in our advocacy program.
Jeremy
So talk about your experiences in in our advocacy program, what all things you've done.
Asna
So I've done both moot court and mock trial program, competitions. I started off with the in school moot court tournament. And then, that summer I attended my first moot court competition out of state, which was in Florida for the summer competition.
Asna
After that, I was put on a mock trial team. And so we did Stetson, which was kind of it was a pretrial competition that really put together both moot court and mock trial. We didn't do opening statements, but we did do directs and cross-examinations and then ended with an oral argument for a motion to suppress. So it really put both of those together.
Asna
And then after that, I did one more moot court competition and a couple of mock trial competitions.
Jeremy
And I think you just recently competed in the Tournament of Champions, which was one of the top tournaments around, and your coaches, Professor Little did he cause any problems or anything, you know? Not really. I'm sorry to hear that. I continue to hope that he would, but it seems he's good at his job despite me trying to find out otherwise.
Jeremy
Okay, so shifting gears here a little bit, you have, it seems your journey to law school, especially right before law school, involves some some tragedy, some real tragedy, and I'm aware of that. Can you share, if you're comfortable, what that, what that was and how maybe it's influenced your course in life and law school.
Asna
Yeah. So, in 2020, somebody murdered my father.
Asna
And I wasn't even in the state when it happened. I was in I was in New York with my brother, and we got a call, and my mother said that she was on the phone with dad, and dad suddenly just said to call 911. And then the phone cut, and she and my sister immediately drove over to, to the store and, when they got there, the police said that dad was okay.
Asna
And inside the, inside of the store and, that they were asking him questions and that, it was an African-American male that had been shot. And so my mom was concerned about dad's health. Dad had diabetes and some other health problems. So she was like, can you at least give him that medicine? And they were like, no.
Asna
Later on, the coroner came and then asked for a picture of dad and then told my mom that it was dad. So it was really hard. Because we didn't know what happened. We didn't know why it happened. He had the keys to the car right there. The keys to the store were literally in the door.
Jeremy
This is a store he owned?
Asna
Yeah. We had a gas station. We had one gas station growing up, and so the keys to the store were literally in the lock. Cash in the register, cash in his pocket. None of it gone. So it wasn't a robbery, and we didn't know why it happened. We didn't know how it happened.
Asna
We didn't know who did it. We just know that one minute he was there and the next he wasn't. And, despite their best efforts, the police couldn't figure it out. So to this day, we have no idea why. Why it happened. And at this point in my life, I knew that I wanted to go to law school.
Asna
I knew that I wanted to study law, but I didn't know what I wanted to do. Beyond that, and this moment in my life really gave me trajectory. It told me exactly what I wanted to do, and there were some other factors going into why I wanted to become a lawyer, but I didn't really know what I wanted to do with being a lawyer.
Asna
And after this, after having suffered, I think, one of the greatest injustices of my life, to not know or have my story completed or really even be heard, and to also be robbed of all of the memories that I would want with my dad. I realized that what I want to do is help other voices be heard.
Asna
I want to give them the tools to advocate for themselves, to give them the justice that my family couldn't receive and will likely never receive. And so I came to law school knowing that really there were only two options. It was either I would become a prosecutor, or I would do some type of employment law for, you know, employment discrimination, helping victims be heard, have their voices told, and then my first summer I internet a DA's office and then that two path kind of converged into one.
Asna
And I found the work to be so fulfilling and so deeply important to me that I was going to my internship every day thinking like, I can't believe that one day I'm going to be paid to do this. Like, you're going to be paid to help people and that moment in my life kind of set me on a path that I think not only helps me find comfort in what I experience, but also to exemplify aspects of my faith that are deeply important to me and kind of help others in a way that I wish I could have been helped.
Jeremy
Yeah, I an I'm very sorry I was aware of this. I'm very sorry for that. But you know, you're a wonderful legacy for your dad. That's that's for sure. I'm wondering, as you did the inter nship, did you get a chance to interact with victims and how that might have helped you? You talked about your faith, but how that might have helped you sympathize even, much less empathize.
Asna
I wasn't able to interact with the victims directly. But vicariously I was able to. So the prosecutor that I was working with would tell me what impact the work that I was doing was going to have on the case and how it was going to help the victims of the cases. And I got to sit in on a lot of trials and kind of see, see the impact of a trial on the victim themselves.
Asna
So I, I worked mainly in the misdemeanor division, but I also got to sit in on a lot of the felony cases. And I got to see, you know, something that I had never really thought about is you always know that children can get hurt, but you never realize that they can also be victims until you see it.
Asna
And one of the things that when I was sitting in a felony trial, I was looking over and I'm seeing this victim on the stand, and I'm watching the impact that this trial is going to have on her. But then I got to see them win the case. I got to see the state win, and I got to see the impact that it had on her family.
Asna
And I realized that one day I will be able to have that impact.
Jeremy
Yeah.
One thing that can get, I think sometimes lost in law school, at least in the classroom experience, is it's, you know, it's all about the law and how to do things. But really the profession is about people. It's about serving people. And what you're talking about is right on point that you that all of this stuff we do at the law school is not an end unto itself.
Jeremy
It's about that child victim. It's about that person who who's business is at risk. It's about that person who may have been discriminated against in the workplace. So I think what you you saw is a really, really important thing for people to know about, going to law school and becoming and becoming a lawyer. So, so it sounds like you're going to be an assistant district attorney at a law school.
Jeremy
Do you know where in the world you want to be?
Asna
I haven't really figured that out yet. I really like the DA's office I've been working at. I worked there for the past two summers, and so hopefully they'll have me back. And if they will, I would love to be there.
Jeremy
So you speaking of geographic location, you are from Alabama.
Jeremy
I think you came to Texas to go to Baylor, is my understanding. Yes. How have you found Texas?
Asna
You know.
Jeremy
I,I'm suddenly a little sorry that I asked.
Asna
you know, growing up in Birmingham, I always told myself, it's like, oh, I'm going to get out of Birmingham, I'm going to go to a bigger city. I'm going to have big city life. It's going to be great. And then I ended up in the very large, Waco, Texas.
Asna
So it's this fascinating experience to go from a tiny, tiny city to an even tinier city. But that being said, I think Waco has a lot of charm to it that a lot of people don't recognize. I think the, the energy is very similar between Alabama and Texas in that the people are very like southern and very, like, kind and helpful, go out of their way to help you.
Asna
And I really appreciate that connection. That being said, one thing I don't necessarily like is the hate on, Alabama's football team, roll Tide. So that's the one con I have.
Jeremy
I'm not hating on Alabama team, right now. Okay. Talk to me about is there a as you think about your time in law school, is there a moment in class or through an organization you may have been involved in that is sort of when you when you look back, that was really impactful to me and maybe it was your time in your internship, but maybe any other that you look back and say that's that was really impactful.
Asna
I think one of the biggest moments that really impacted me personally is, the amount of care that the professors have for students is in unmeasurable, in my opinion. So we were doing the, competition in the internal moot court competition, and my partner was Tony. He's also still my PC partner. And, the way that it worked is we were put into different legal writing classes.
Asna
So he had Professor Tang and I had Professor James, for our professors, for legal writing, and, you know, we started our competition. We were doing pretty okay. And I remember, at the award ceremony, Professor Tang coming up to me. And I had never had a conversation with her ever in my entire life. Not once. And she, you know, comes up to you.
Asna
She goes, hey, Asna, I just want you to know I was rooting for you the whole time. And, you know, I'm so proud of the progress that you made. I know that this was really new for you. And I'm just so proud of you getting this far. And just that one little interaction with Professor Tang made such a big difference in my approach and in my understanding of law school in general, because it always just feels so ruff, ruff ruff ruff ruff at all times.
Asna
It just feels very like you're constantly on the go. And to have that moment to kind of like step back and be like, no, like it's not just in class, it's the professors care about you outside of class and they care about your well-being. And, you know, Professor Tang, I, before my competition, she would give us little care packages and, like, she just the way that the professors will go out to bat for you just really changed my law school experience completely.
Jeremy
Yeah. Professor Tang is great. And and, I think she represents something that we all, everyone in the building feels. Is that here, the students are number one and part of part of number one is to is to is to challenge them. Right. Because the legal profession is challenging, but also to make sure students know we we do care about you.
Jeremy
And I think I'm just delighted to hear that about Professor Tang. Okay, now we're moving to the lightning round. Your answers have to be short or they will. They will end. They will end the podcast immediately. In your opinion, what is the best restaurant in Waco?
Asna
Saffron.
Jeremy
Good answer. Your favorite TV show of all time?
Asna
Gray's Anatomy.
Jeremy
My wife would agree.
Jeremy
Your favorite novel or work of nonfiction of all time?
Asna
I am messenger.
Jeremy
I'll have to follow up on that. But this is Lightning round that I cannot. Do you have a personal motto, scripture or quotation or phrase you draw on for strength, inspiration, or the like?
Asna
With hardship comes ease.
Jeremy
Love it in 15 seconds or less , describe your dream vacation.
Asna
Well, Probably, being up in the mountains going on a hike.
Jeremy
Excellent. Seems achievable. That's that's good. All right, I understand you may have a question.
Asna
Yes. Two for me. I have two questions for you. Okay. That's
Asna
All right. How has being a student and professor at Baylor impacted your approach to being the dean?
Jeremy
I definitely remember being a student. And of course, I've been on the faculty for over 20 years before becoming the dean, you know, 100 and something days ago. I. I think about Baylor Law school changed my life for the positive, raised the trajectory of my life.
Jeremy
And when I look back on my experiences, I never would have. And in the moment, as a student thought, this is going to be really important for me down the road. But it is. The the idea of going through a challenge with other people, with your classmates, with your practice court partner, your moot court partner, those intense experiences, they not only raise the trajectory of your life, but they also form lifelong bonds.
Jeremy
And I think that's something that I want to make sure continues to be true. My son, I had this experience. My son went to medical school, and for the first time, he left his hometown, you know, sort of outside of our friends and family and our community here in Waco. And he went to, school in a different city.
Jeremy
And I was sort of surprised by how worried I was about him, you know, whether he would be okay. And I realize that is an experience that law students have. Their family members have. And I remember a couple weeks in to medical school, I called him up and I said, how are you doing? And he said, I am challenged, but I am thriving.
Jeremy
And that summed up for me what I want for our law students. I want them to be challenged, but I want them to thrive. And those things can be in tension a little bit, right? But the main thing is we want to make sure our students are prepared to be successful in the legal profession. And I want the students to say, three years out.
Jeremy
Wow, I'm really grateful for my education. That's what I really, really want above all else, because I am certainly very grateful for what they were law school did did for me. I wouldn't, I don't think I would have been quite as enthusiastic during law school, because you don't see how it's going to help you, but, oh, you don't always see how it's gonna help, but sometimes you do.
Jeremy
But now I'm just like, wow. I, it's been so helpful to me. So what's the question
Jeremy
number two? All right. I droned on there for
Asna
Question number two is, having been in our shoes in the past, what advice do you have for current students who are passionate about trial advocacy?
Jeremy
I think you have to I think you need to do it a lot. I think repetition is key, and I also think you have to be willing to fail. One of the one of the best pieces of advice that I've ever heard. It wasn't even advice. It was just sort of a truism came from one of my practice core professors and a mentor of mine, a professor.
Jeremy
Gerry Powell is retired now. But he said the key for trial lawyers, you have to hate failure. You have to hate it. But you can never fear it. And those two things are, again, hard to hold together. But that's really something that the willingness to go fail, the willingness to sort of fall flat on your face in front of your colleagues, in front of a jury, in front of, you know, in mock trial, in front of judges.
Jeremy
But you know what that is? That's courage. And courage is really, really, really, as you know, as you well know, really, really important in a lawyer. Lots of key, traits for a great lawyer, but one of them is definitely courage.
Jeremy
Asna, thanks so much. We are very proud of you. And you're going to be a great lawyer.
Jeremy
You're going to make a big difference out there.
Asna
Thank you so much for having me.
Jeremy
Absolutely.
