Austin Lau's Journey from Coding to the Courtroom at Baylor Law School
Austin Lau's Journey from Coding to the Courtroom at Baylor Law School
From writing code to briefing legal cases, 2L Austin Lau made a bold pivot from software engineering to studying law at Baylor Law School—and he hasn’t looked back. In this episode, he shares what pulled him away from tech, how his Baylor Lawyer dad helped ease the transition, and why he’s so inspired by intellectual property law’s blend of creativity, independence, and constant innovation. Austin also talks about his go-to coffee order in Waco, the artists he’d book for Baylor’s new concert venues, and what it’s really like trading corporate life for the pressure of law school cold calls.
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TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy
Hi, this is Jeremy Counseller, Dean of Baylor Law School. Welcome to another episode of Counseller’s Corner Podcast. My guest today is Austin Lau, a second-year law student here at Baylor Law School. First thing I'm interested in about you, the first thing that sort of jumps off the page is you are, as I understand it, a rower.
Austin
Yes.
Jeremy
What is a rower?
Austin
So, we row rowing boats, of course. And right now, I'm more of a coaching role, but I do row on my own time. Every morning from, well, on the weekdays, from 5 to 7 a.m., we have practice at our boathouse. Right down the law school on the Brazos. And we pass the law school every morning.
Jeremy
Who? Who is in these? What kind of boats are these? And who is in them?
Austin
So, there are, there's two styles of rowing. There is one where each rower has one oar. And there is another way. You have two oars per person. The person, or a rower who has one oar is called a sweeping because they are doing a sweeping motion with the oar and there is sculling rowing where each person has two oars, and the boats change in size from - they have one person boats, two person boats, four person boats, and eight boats.
And typically, within Baylor, at least to the Baylor rowing team, we mostly do sweeping rowing. So, each person has one oar. And when you're in a single, you have two oars. So, when an oar on each side and you're doing rowing motion and, we generally, within Baylor, we practice mostly in fours and eights, because we have a, a pretty large team and we're able to go compete across Texas.
Jeremy
So, this is, this is a competition team. Is it, is it intramural or is it intercollegiate? What's the organization that you're rowing with? I know it's a Baylor thing.
Austin
It's a it is a club team. But we do compete against other D1 teams, D2 teams.
Jeremy
So you said you're mostly a coach now.
Austin
Yes.
Jeremy
at Baylor. So are you the… So, I've seen this. Are you the person that sits in the boat and you don't actually row, but you yell at all the other people in the boat to row?
Austin
I do sometimes. That is called the coxswain role.
Jeremy
Okay.
Austin
Their role is to be the captain of the boat, essentially. And they steer it. They give the commands; they ensure the safety; ensure everyone is on time; proper form and following. If the coach gives directions. “Okay, go down to, pass I-35 and let's meet at basketball area” like. And the coxswain role is to relay the commands to the rowers.
Jeremy
Okay. I don't know anything about this sport, but it seems like that would be a role where it's easy to be hated. Because here's a team that's rowing. They're doing all of the physical labor and exertion, and you're telling them they're not doing it right, or you need to do it this way. You need to row faster. Do you think it's easy to be hated in that role?
Austin
I don't think it's hated; it's more collaborative. And typically to get to that position, we do require training of course, because you have the safety of 4 or 8 other people in your boat who rely on you.
And, it's really easy to be a bad coxswain, but it's really hard to be a good one. And to be a really good one. You know, we train by either making them record themselves during a race, like, okay, let's go over your commands. Like if you're yelling, “let's go, let's go, let's go” repetitively, repetitively over to single race, your boat might not be too happy.
But if you're being strategic about your commands. “Okay, we're gonna hit halfway point. We're gonna apply more pressure, and we're going to ease off for a bit and sprint to the end”. So, if you follow more of a strategy, be very knowledgeable about the limits of the people in your boat, even though you might not be putting in the physical effort, you're putting in the effort and making sure the boat goes straight. You know, it's a lot easier and faster to row down a course straight, of course, than weaving through and being inefficient with the speed. So, it really does vary on how well they understand the boat and how the boat understands the coxswain.
Jeremy
Of course, you've been in their position.
Austin
Yes.
Jeremy
As an undergraduate you were a rower, right? Okay. So you've got some credibility to…
Austin
I'd hope so, yeah.
Jeremy
Yeah. Well, that's great. Here's another thing I heard you say. You do this every morning on weekdays.
Austin
Yes.
Jeremy
5 a.m. to 7 a.m.. This is before you go to class and do all your other law school obligations. What role does that two hours of exercise every day play in your success or strategy about law school?
Austin
Well, it has two things of one, balancing time. I, I try to be bed before 1 a.m. before midnight, hopefully. And so it really makes you prioritize your time. And it's not like, okay, I'm going to stay up tonight and work on whatever I want and if I stay up late, it's okay. You know, I can go by, but it forces me to have a checklist of get these things done before midnight after class.
And secondly, I show up to my 8 a.m.s or my 9 a.m.s already awake. You know, people just got about 30 minutes ago. Yeah, I've been awake for three hours. I am already focused. I'm not in the process of turning on my brain in first 8 AM class.
Jeremy
Yeah, I'm an early riser too. I, I couldn't be a person who goes into class either to teach it or to sit in that class and having awakened 30 minutes before. So I, I agree with the 5 a.m. Personally, 5 a.m. works, works for me too, but I'm not on a boat at 5:00 am, so I admire you.
I admire you for that Austin. Okay, so talk to me. We, we mentioned you rowed in undergrad. You're doing, you're involved in the rowing team here at Baylor while you're in law school. But I want to talk about what, what has the transition been like for you from your undergraduate to law school? How have you found that?
Austin
Well, I worked for a few years between undergrad and law school. The biggest thing is what I do after 5 p.m. Right now, when I was working, or back then when I was working, I'd go home, I could relax, I could work on my own things. And now, it's I come home, I'm not as relaxed yet.
I still have things to do. So, it's more of what I do after 5 p.m. and as well as, financial concerns because, you know, after undergrad, I was working as a software engineer and I made software money and I can go enjoy my time. I could go out to eat if I want. And whereas here, you know, my income is limited.
If not…
Jeremy
a little tighter.
Austin
It is tighter. I'm reverting back to my undergraduate diet of living on a budget. And so I'd say number one is my scheduling in the afternoons. And secondly, just financial concerns of making sure I'm preserving capital for the three years I'm here.
Jeremy
Yeah. So that raises a question. You're out there working for three years. Software engineer. You're, you're successful. You're young, professional. You can do what you want in the evenings. You've got money to do the things you want. Why go? Why go to law school? Why give that up to go to law school?
Austin
Yeah. So I was a software engineer for five years, and then I got to the point - I was a software engineer at Capital One, and I kind of saw the writing on the wall where, okay, my next promotion is or my next two promotions, it's likely to be to where I'm not solving. I'm not hands on solving problems.
I'm more of a people management person at that point. I would manage people who would solve the problems, and I really enjoyed being hands on in the problem solving process. So I thought, you know, I, I love my job as a software engineer and I want to keep doing it. You know, I would code at work and I would go home and code some more.
And I thought that was great. And then secondly, I was like, okay, you know, I'm about to turn 30 pretty soon. I'm 28 right now. So, it's, if I were to go to law school, the best time would be now before I have a mortgage to pay, before I have kids to raise, before I have people relying on me before my parents get too old.
And so the stars kind of lined of... Okay. You know, at work, I love my work, but sooner or later I won't, I have the right time to do it where I have enough background experience to carry into law school and be mature about it and use it for an intellectual property path. And finally, I thought, you know, if I were to be… Let's say I'm 65.
I’m looking back on, when I was in my 20s, if I were to have any regrets, it would not, at least it would be to not even give an attempt to get into law school. So I thought, okay, you know, I'll take an afternoon class and try out the LSAT. Before the change logic games and I took an LSAT class, applied for a few law schools.
Got into Baylor. Like. Well, I think it's time to go to Baylor.
Jeremy
Yeah, you're father…
Austin
Yes.
Jeremy
…is a lawyer. He's a Baylor lawyer.
Austin
Yes.
Jeremy
Wondering what advice, if any, he gave you about law school in general, or maybe going to Baylor Law School in particular?
Austin
Well, he realized that a lot has changed since he went to Baylor Law, but a lot has also remained the same. Being a few professors like Serr, Dean Tobin, Professor Teague still being around. He was he told me, you know, it's a small community. You're more than just a number, at Baylor Law. You know, you're going to get to know everyone.
So, if you go there, get to know everyone, make sure you well known and treat everyone with respect, as you do anywhere else. But especially at Baylor Law.
Jeremy
Yeah. Did he, once you were attending Baylor Law School, did he, did you seek his advice about things maybe class related or studying the law? And did he give any advice that you thought was helpful?
Austin
I still do, I still remember when I started your civil procedure course. I think it was like week three, and I was like, what's the difference between a brief and an outline? I didn't know the difference. And I was like, what's an outline? And as well and outlines a compilation, you know, it's a brief for a case.
And he taught me more of the fundamentals of going into 1L and how to prepare for finals. Like when you read a case and I asked him, like, I'm reading these cases, but like, I don't know, I get cold-called on and I'm like, I don't know, the intricate facts of like, what city or where this land was located in and whether it was attached or not.
Does that matter? He said no. What matters is the concept of why you're learning the case. And so he teaches me more of like how to behave as a law student and how to think like a law student. Now, does he remember the specific facts for certain cases? No. But he, he generally gives me guidance on how to perform better as a law student.
Jeremy
Yeah. Well, that's, I think that's that's good. Now, this makes eminent sense, but it seems to me you're interested, and I think you've said this already, in intellectual property, to have a practice in that area makes sense. You're a software engineer, have an engineering background. What about that practice area appeals to you?
Austin
I, one thing that does appeal to me, and it carries over to law as well, is you have the flexibility of doing what you want. You can create anything you want.
Austin
There's, if the if you see a problem in society or in a market, you can always leverage technology. Back then, the way to leverage work was either you do it yourself or you hire someone to do it for you, or you spend your time and resources to invent a machine to do it for you. Nowadays, with a low cost of computation, you can spin up a cloud server and solve a problem, solve a problem, market it, and become an entrepreneur and start your own business.
That's one thing I did where you could be hands on, create your own business, and make it sustainable to build and run a living off of it. And the similar practice is with law too, where if you can run as a solo practice or with a team in a firm. So that's one appealable aspect of creativity in solving problems.
And the ability to go solo if you need to.
Jeremy
Yeah. This flexibility.
Austin
Yes. Yeah.
Jeremy
Yes, which is a positive thing about a legal education, is, I always say to people, you know, getting a law degree doesn't, doesn't burn many bridges. There's lawyers, in all sectors of the economy and, and elsewhere as well. You are currently the, I think, the vice president of the Intellectual Property Law Society. Am I right about that?
Austin
Yes.
Jeremy
So, talk about that student organization and your role in it.
Austin
Yeah. So, I know a bit of the history of the organization. It kind of died off during COVID and it came back, thanks to the hope of two current six quarter students. And right now, because they're about to go into PC, they wanted to hand off things, but they also wanted to grow the organization. So, one of the things we've been doing is, we started a newsletter and we have a email distribution list where we send it out and once a month, and we also post it around the law school.
And that's one thing we've been spearheading, as well as trying to host more speaker events at the law school to get others who may not have a technology background, interested in IP because especially with the increase in the, freedom of student athletes in NIL, there's more and more opportunity for non-technical students to go into IP and help others using the IP background. For example, NIL deals.
Jeremy
Well, the student organizations here at the law school, the intellectual property one included, really add a lot of vibrancy to the to the law school learning environment. And in a place where students can explore their own interests and get involved and make friends and network and learn more about different things, including the area of law in which they might want to, to work.
We have now reached the point, Austin, that we call the Lightning Round. So I'm going to ask you some questions. Some of them are pretty silly, but they're all fun and you have to, you have to keep your answers short. Okay?
Austin
Of course.
Jeremy
Okay. Baylor is bringing, a series of concerts to Foster Pavilion and McLane Stadium. Which artist or band would you like to see perform?
Austin
I do listen to a wide range of music. It would have to be Midland. The, country or country band.
Jeremy
Okay, yeah. Not familiar. Is that named after the city?
Austin
Midland? I believe so, I think that's where they're founded, but I don't think the artists themselves are from Texas, though.
Jeremy
Okay. Favorite childhood TV show or movie?
Austin
Dexter's lab. Yeah. Or Code Next or Codename: Code Next Door, I think. Okay.
Jeremy
I know these shows because I have kids. Favorite hangout spot with a friend or group of friends in Waco?
Austin
It would have to be Dichotomy.
Jeremy
Tell me about Dichotomy.
Austin
So I do enjoy they're cold brews over there. And they have a thing where you can go there and say, surprise me and they will give you a random drink. And I sometimes do that. And I've been very pleasantly surprised on things I normally don't order.
Jeremy
Yeah. You can see the courthouse from there too.
Austin
Oh, definitely. Yeah.
Jeremy
If you could travel to any era, past or future, what? Where would you go?
Austin
I think it would have to be in the Roman Empire. I just want to see. It's, you know, something that we don't have. We have a lot history about, and you can read about it, but, I think just very interesting.
Jeremy
Good answer. What is your go to comfort food?
Austin
A affogato with coffee ice cream. Specifically Haagen-Dazs coffee ice cream.
Jeremy
It's very specific.
Austin
Yes.
Jeremy
Thank you Austin. I understand you may have a question for me.
Austin
Yeah. So I, I mean, there's been so many advents with AI, I want to get your thoughts on how it impacts the law field and specifically, what is Baylor doing about the combination of AI and law?
Jeremy
Yeah. So the university has a committee that sort of monitors the development of artificial intelligence. Our professor, Matt Cordon is on that committee. It's attempt to constantly monitor and be flexible enough because the technology changes so fast to be nimble and be able to adjust. I think you mentioned that technology and the law, I think it's going to have, AI is going to have a really important and significant impact on the practice of law, and therefore, I think it needs to have a significant impact on a legal education.
One thing that we're going to do, and I think you'll see these you starting to see these things appear, and you'll continue to see them as you proceed into your second, continuing your second, and proceed into your third year law school is, you will encounter places where, encounter courses, where they're going to show you certain AI tools that lawyers use.
Now, I think it's important that, you know, five years out into practice, ten years out into practice, you may be using a different AI tool or the same AI tool may look very, very different, but I think it's important that we start to practice with how we can use AI. The other thing, how do we use artificial intelligence ethically?
There have been situations, as you know, some AI sometimes can hallucinate, and that can run a lawyer into some real problems if the lawyer isn't where the buck stops. You know, the lawyers is ultimately responsible for the document produced. Even if AI assisted in the production of that document. And then the other thing, I think more institutionally that we need to think about is, what is AI going to do to an entry level job for a brand new law graduate?
One of the first things I did as a lawyer 25 years ago, and I know this is an experience that many lawyers have had. You go into a warehouse and there's a box full and it's full of boxes, and you’ve got a team of lawyers and the instruction is, go pull everything out of those boxes that's privileged. Because you don't want to turn that over in discovery.
Well, that's, it's not done that way anymore. That it's, it's done through software and that and, and searchable word searches with search terms. So, technology has already changed the sort of work that a new associate would do. I think that's going to accelerate. And we've got to keep our eye on what that looks like and make sure our students are prepared for what those first year after graduation jobs look like.
Jeremy
Austin, thanks a lot.
Austin
Of course.
Jeremy
I'm very pleased to have you here. And, I'm glad you're, involved at the law school and, and with 5 a.m. rowing sessions.
Austin
Yes.
Jeremy
That's great. Thanks Austin.
Austin
Of course. Thank you for your time.
