A Gavel’s Impact: The Childhood Moment That Inspired Labrina Ware
Counseller's Corner - Season 3, Episode 3:
When third-year Baylor Law School student Labrina Ware was just six years old, an unexpected encounter in a courtroom had a profound impact on her life. During a difficult chapter of her childhood, a judge’s simple act of kindness helped shape her perception of the law. That moment sparked a dream of becoming a lawyer, one that remained with her as she served in the military and pursued her education.
At 17, Labrina enlisted in the United States Air Force, where she served as an intelligence analyst. She later earned degrees from Borough of Manhattan Community College and Rutgers University. Now, as a law student and mother, she is preparing for a career focused on juvenile justice and advocating for children and families.
In this episode of Counseller’s Corner, Dean Jeremy Counseller speaks with Labrina about the childhood experience that inspired her career and the lessons she learned during her military service. She reflects on finding her place at Baylor Law School and the community that has supported her throughout her legal education. Their conversation also explores her commitment to recognizing the people affected by legal decisions, her hopes for the future, and the role motherhood has played in her law school experience.
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TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy
Hello, and welcome to another edition of Counseller’s Corner. I'm Jeremy Counseller, Dean of Baylor Law School, and I am very happy today to be joined by third-year law student Labrina Ware. Hello, Labrina. How are you doing?
Labrina
I'm doing great. How are you, Dean Counseller?
Jeremy
I'm doing pretty well. I'm glad you've agreed to come on the show. One of the, that you and I have something in common, which is that we've wanted to be lawyers since we were pretty young. I think you wanted to be a lawyer since you were, like, five or six years old.
Labrina
Yes.
Jeremy
And that desire has something to do with an experience you had in a courtroom. So, can you tell us about that?
Labrina
Yes. So, when I was five years old, we…
There was litigation with Child Protective Services, and I was going to witness against my mom's boyfriend, and they brought me into the court, and I, I remember it because I was like six years old. They had a lot of counseling sessions with me. I worked with a social worker a lot. I remember what she looked like.
And there was another one. Her name was Miss Antoinette. And they would often take me into a courtroom, and they let me, the, the judge, he let me sit behind the bench and he let me bang the gavel. And I told him, I said, “I want to be like you one day. I want to be a judge.”
And he told me, “Well, you have to go to law school first. You have to be a lawyer first.” And I told my aunt, I said, “I'm going to be a lawyer.” And everyone who, everyone I could come across, I would tell them I was going to be a lawyer, and this is since I was six years old.
And that, just like there was a moment in that dark time that, like it was such a light in that moment. And like now, it's more significant now because we're learning about that process. So, like as we talk about, like I remember the recording, because I remembered the counselor. She told me, she said, “I'm going to be on the other side of this glass if you need me, I'll be right there.”
And you tell me, you know, if you look that way, Imma be over there. And I remembered all of those things, but you don't really understand what's happening. And now it's really cool to, like, see the process of what's happening in the background. Yeah.
Jeremy
Well, you said it was a dark time in that moment with the judge and the other people who helped you was a light.
Do you realize that light at the end of the tunnel, you are almost at the end of the tunnel as a third-year law student?
Labrina
That's so scary.
Jeremy
Well, but you got to stop and think about how wonderful that is.
Labrina
Yes, yes. That is amazing.
Jeremy
It is amazing.
Labrina
I… It is. It is.
Jeremy
Okay. You, you have, I don't, I don't want to press you on the dark time, but I mean, it seems like a kind of a really tough way to be introduced to the legal system, to be introduced to lawyers.
And your take away from it was, I want to be a lawyer. How did you connect the role of the lawyer in those, in that dark place that, in, in a courtroom? Why was it something you wanted to do at that, at that time?
Labrina
I want to say that I, I actually had to like, before I went to law school…
This is something I had to reconcile because I it was, so it was the first time I felt protected. So, for me, like, it was like every time I've had an encounter with the legal system at a young age, I would be going through something and then a judge would say, no, this is going to happen. And this happened several times in my life to the point where I gained this big trust in the legal system.
It made me really believe in the legal system in like on a broad sense in a way that a lot of people don't get. This comes from my background and situation. So, I was, I really found trusting it to the point where when I, I decided to actually go to law school, I said, well, you know, I was praying about it.
I said, well, I don't I don't want to just go because I'm still being that five-year-old girl trying to get protection. And this, you know, me fighting to become a lawyer and a judge becomes about me trying to do something for that five-year-old girl. And when I realized oh, no, this is something that's beyond me.
This is so that I can do this for other five-year-old girls, and they can feel protected.
Jeremy
Yeah, I think that's a really important process you went through to think to, as you said, to reconcile it. You know, why do I really want to do this? I think is really, really important.
Jeremy
Okay. Now here's a, here's a pattern I detect.
Labrina
Okay.
Jeremy
Okay. You make big decisions at young ages. Six years old, I'm going to be a lawyer. At seventeen, you join the United States Air Force.
Labrina
I did.
Jeremy
Okay. Tell me about why you did that and what kind of work you did for the Air Force.
Labrina
I am a very stubborn minded, as my mom would put it, pigheaded sometimes. Very. I had my heart set on moving to New York City, and the country girl in me thought Syracuse was New York City. And I got in something into Syracuse, and I told my mom, I'm headed to the city. Syracuse is not the city, by the way.
Jeremy
It is New York.
Labrina
It's New York. It's not New York City.
Jeremy
No.
Labrina
So, I was going to be very disappointed. So, she kind of saved me. But she said, “You're not going.” And so, I said, we have to come to a compromise because, and I realized I did some research at school and learned that I would be classified as an independent person.
There was options. I could divorce my family, which was a thought. I could, I could get married, which was not something I wanted to do, or I could join the military, and I would be classified as independent, and my mom would not be allowed to say. Like, I would need her signature for FAFSA and all this stuff.
So, at fifteen, this guy from the Air Force comes to Ozanne High School and he says, hey, do y'all want to skip three class periods? I said, of course. And he said, okay, you're going to go take the ASVAB. And I made a good enough score to where he contacted me and he said, we want to start processing you to become a member of the Air Force.
And then I said, oh my God, this is what I need so that I can rule my life. And so, I joined and, at sixteen, I signed my life away. At seventeen, I was headed off to the Air Force.
Jeremy
And what sort of work did you do in the Air Force?
Labrina
I was an intelligence analyst. Yeah. So, I was an intelligence analyst, analyst.
Jeremy
Is that as much as you can say?
Labrina
It is as much as I can say. I had a top-secret security clearance. It was a lot for a seventeen-year-old, but it was really. I found it very rewarding. Like, we, we worked in a skiff in Langley Force Base, and it was like, it was a very good experience.
It was heavy, though. It was very heavy for a young person.
Jeremy
To the extent you can say, what did your experience, how does that translate over into kind of your approach to your future career, your approach to law school?
Labrina
Okay, so one thing that I remembered from that, I carry with me forever, we didn't, we didn't actually have to go downrange, but we worked with people who did, every day.
And like, you get to know these people. I'm looking their wives up on Facebook to let them know, hey, I know your call got dropped, but he's okay. And you get to know these people. And, I remember we would have these briefings. And one thing that we had come into a habit of is like celebrating that the debts for the missions that happened in the previous week were in, like, the single digits. But, oh…
Jeremy
On the US side?
Labrina
On the US side. And it, I was conflicted about it, but then I was like, okay, it is single digits. There were years before I joined where it was like in hundreds and thousands. And so, they would celebrate and, and this captain who had just came from downrange, he saw them clapping and he got so mad.
Dean Counseller, it was like Civ Pro week six. And you say, ‘this person who's from England’ and you ask somebody, what is, you know, where is her? And they say that ‘she is a citizen of Texas because she lived in Texas for ten years. And like I'm talking about veins popping out of the neck.
Jeremy
That was me? Okay.
Labrina
It's close.
Jeremy
Okay. So, was he was he more bulgy, eye bulgy and vein popping than I was?
Labrina
He jumped up and he wasn't even as tall as you.
Jeremy
Okay.
Labrina
But he made himself the biggest person in the room in that moment. And he's like, are we celebrating this? Is this what we’re celebrating? Like six people are going to receive a coffin instead of their child?
Jeremy
Yeah.
Labrina
And we're celebrating this? Until that number is zero, you don't celebrate that because… And he was talking, he started talking about statistics and things like that. And I was like, I was eighteen at this point. And hearing that to me, the gravity of that, that is serious. You know, it made me look at numbers and statistics in a different way.
These are people.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Labrina
And now I hear it all the time. People take numbers that represents lives and they throw it in an argument, and they just use it to prove a point. But you're proving a point with somebody’s lived experience, and you have to take reverence of that and what that actually means. It's not just for me to win an argument in a moment.
How is what I'm saying going to affect that group of people, and how people in these rooms that they don't get to come in think of them.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Labrina
So that became important to me throughout my life.
Jeremy
Yeah. The, the that it's people, as you said, it's people; it's not a number. They're not a number. I mean you'll are in this room thinking six is better than sixty.
Labrina
Yeah.
Jeremy
But six is still six human lives no matter what point, you know, the, the reduction in casualties.
Labrina
It still has six people who are gone.
Jeremy
Okay. There were points along the way for you when continuing your education was difficult to say, to say the least. As you look back on earning your degree, you went to Rutgers I believe and earned your degree from, from Rutgers. And then ultimately, you're coming, you came here to Baylor Law School. What are the accomplishments you're most proud of?
Labrina
Honestly, before Rutgers, when I got that Borough Manhattan Community College Associates. That was the first time I actually finished something, and I was so proud of that. Oh my God. And it gave me the momentum because it's like you take that one little step and it gave me the momentum to know that, okay, I think I can do two more years.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Labrina
And then you just break it down like that. And then when I got done with Rutgers, I took a little bit of time off, and then I was like, but law school was only three years and I did this twice. I think I can do three years. And it did that. That first community college degree gave me the ‘I think I can’.
And I was like, okay, I think I can do this, I think I can finish. So yes, I was most proud of that.
Jeremy
It reminds me of that saying, you know, good gets better.
Labrina
Yeah.
Jeremy
You know, and if you could just do something good, you're like, oh, you know, I can I can do even more. And now here you are, a third-year law student. Okay, let's talk about law school. When you, when you arrived here at Baylor Law School, I want to know what your expectations were, and then maybe what compared to reality, because you're, whether you realize it or not, you're nearing the finish line here. So, expectation at the beginning versus reality.
Labrina
Dean Counseller, I was so scared. I was so scared. I think oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
Jeremy
It probably had to do with my eyes bulging out of my head or veins of my head.
Labrina
That was the least of my worries. I grew up with eyes bulging like I. I was like, you know, if the if all you do is yell, I'm okay with it. I can live with that.
Jeremy
I do raise my voice in class a lot.
Labrina
Your voice just carries out. It's natural. It's not... You know,
Jeremy
You can hear me in the hallway. There might be people in the hallway who need to understand how to determine a person's citizenship under the diversity statute. And if they’re walking by…
Labrina
And if they don't know and they pass by your classroom, they will know.
Yeah, they will know. And it's okay. So, I, but I was so afraid of like I'm a little older than everybody else. I have my baby. I was so afraid of, like, I said I know God, you got me here. I know I gotta make it, but I don't know how. Are you going to drag me over this finish line?
Like, are we walking over like, how is this going to happen? So, I was afraid of how I talk, like, because I'm like, I'm from Beaumont. I talk like I'm from Beaumont. And I was afraid of, like, how I...
Jeremy
Beaumont, Beaumont, Texas is in southeast Texas.
Labrina
Yes. Beaumont, Texas, southeast Texas. And it gets real. I think Professor Bates was the first person that made me say, you know, I think I'll be okay, because he said when he wants to make a point, he go and ‘it ain't it’. And I said, oh, this feels like home.
Jeremy
You, you won't be the first great lawyer to come from Beaumont, Texas, I can assure you.
Labrina
I thought… I was so nervous.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Labrina
It was really nervous. I felt very insecure about being able to keep up with the work.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Labrina
I was, I just didn't know. I didn't know.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Labrina
Yeah, but I think everyone here, the staff did a really great job of reassuring me.
I did want to be honest with you guys because I said, well, when I was applying for law school, I had an attorney friend. He said, don't write about your baby. He said, because, you know, they, they probably would think you're not going to be able to complete it. And then I really thought really hard about that.
And I end up making Malik like the center of my paper because I said, I want to be honest, I would rather you tell me, hey, this is, just we're a traditional law school. We would prefer you to come straight out of college. I would rather you reject me than for me to pretend that I don't have this situation going on.
And the first time you realize I have a baby is when I got to miss a week of school because he's sick, so I. I was so afraid, though, even with you guys accepting me, I was still afraid.
Jeremy
Okay, so let's talk about that. Tell us. Tell us about your son, whom I've met. Yes, but. And how that experience has been in law.
Because that's tough. I mean, it's tough to have a child, especially one as young as Malik, and to do everything that you're having to do just to make it through law schools. So, talk about how that experience has been.
Labrina
Honestly, for me, because of the way I grew up, I didn't realize it was hard. Like, this is just part of my life.
I've just been surviving. And then before me, my mom survived. And so, people who have come from this, you don't even realize how hard it is.
Jeremy
You don't know the difference is what you’re saying. You don’t know the difference.
Labrina
No. You just you just power through it. What makes it so hard is because y’all also helpful. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this couldn’t be easier.
Life could be… And now it's… But I'm telling you, I, I power through, I push through. But he's, he forces me to get rest because he don't care that I have school in the morning. So, he come ask me, mom, can you come lay down with me, please? And then I lay down. And then you're so tired, and then you fall asleep and you wake up.
It's three in the morning. And now I gotta, like, let me get my reading done now. It has taught me how to be more efficient because I have to plan around his schedule. I have to pick him up, I have to do things.
Jeremy
And there's no margin for error.
Labrina
No.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Labrina
No. But I, I'm this… Y’all have helped me so much. Honestly, I don't think I could have done this at any other school.
Jeremy
So how do you, so you, you've got Malik. Whatever, you don't have any place for him to go. But there's class.
Labrina
Yes.
Jeremy
What, what do you do?
Labrina
Do you really want to know?
Jeremy
No. Well, I think I do know.
Labrina
He's sat in class with me before.
Jeremy
Did he sit in Civ Pro at one point?
Labrina
He sat in, he didn't have to sit in Civ Pro because by the time I did that, he was in school. But he had to, he, in fact, he sat with me this morning, that’s Fraley’s class, because he has fall break.
Jeremy
Oh, yes. Yes.
Labrina
I didn't realize that.
Jeremy
What grade is he in right now?
Labrina
He's in third grade. So, he just switched to a private school and they have fall break. And I was like, what is a fall break? And it was like, okay, it's in October. So, I, I emailed Professor Fraley and I said, hey, I'm so sorry. It's really hard for me to find somebody to watch him at 7:30 in the morning because all of my babysitters go to college and they have class at eight.
Jeremy
Yeah.
Labrina
Do you mind if he just sits? And I'm going to figure something out. And he had to come to class with me. So sometimes he spent his life in this law school. He thinks this is like he owns a piece of this law school.
Jeremy
Yeah. Maybe you're inspiring him to become a lawyer like the judge did for you.
Labrina
Maybe. Well, he said he said, mom, I think I'm going to be an astronaut. Like, this is nice, but I think I'm going to be an astronaut. I said, okay, yeah, we'll see.
Jeremy
We'll see. But, but he's, he's aiming high. Literally.
Labrina
He's aiming high, yes.
Jeremy
Yes, he is aiming high. That is good stuff. Well, I'm glad that you've, you've had a good experience, you know, and just for people listening it might be interested in law school.
It's not all folks who, like I just finished undergrad and now I'm in the fall. After I graduate in May, I'm going to start law school. There are people we have a number of military and ex-military here, people who've had a career in various sorts of endeavors. And we do have people who sort of just got out of undergraduate, but it's very, people are coming from different kind of backgrounds and experiences in law school.
And I think that's true pretty much everywhere. And everybody enriches the environment of the law school. And certainly, you and Malik do. I have, I, what I know about Malik is he's, he's quiet when he's in class and he, he likes In-N-Out French fries, which I, I can't share that opinion with him, but I'm glad that he likes them.
Okay. What do you think you're going to do with your, like, I don't mean 20 years from now, but when you finish law school, when you graduate. What's the, what are the early steps for you?
Labrina
I want to serve the public in every way that I can because, well, what I, what I was looking into, I'm looking into either, public defense.
I really want to do; I really want to work with juvenile justice. So, I want to work with children, and I want to help that process. That's what I'm looking for straight out. And, like, my goal is to try to give those experiences because I know what it's like to go through a process like that as a child, and I want to have them have that light in their experience as well, to know that, you know, because I think that honestly, it, it, it, it grounded me throughout my entire childhood.
To this idea that, oh, I'm going to become a lawyer one day.
Jeremy
You're, you're, you're perfect for that. You, you have a perspective to bring to that. Not, I mean, beyond your legal training, but you've got a perspective to bring to that. And I think that's, that's wonderful.
Labrina
Yeah. So, and I try to encourage all of my fellow classmates to know, I tell them all, but you know my background because I want them to be encouraged that if you do work with this, be sensitive to the baby your, your, you might be the reason that they get out of the situation that they're growing up in right now.
Jeremy
Tell me what, you are one of these, but I don't know what it means. Tell me what a Bradley Fellow is.
Labrina
A Bradley Fellow…
Jeremy
Or people may not know what it is.
I, I had no idea what it was until I applied for it. Right? So, they are a, they're more conservative group out of Milwaukee, and they support people who are pushing for a constitutional law.
Okay. And so, they had, I had to write a paper and apply for it. And the only thing I shared about was that my experience, in my childhood experience, they are I the reason I fight for constitutional law, for families and to preserve families, is because there's a lot of well-meaning people who will assert they want to help, and they will push aside the rights of families in an effort to try and help.
And then in the long run, it hurts a broader demographic of people. So that's what I wrote about. I constantly, I keep my focus on - this is what I came to law school for, to fight for children and fight for families. And they read the paper and they were in line with that fight, and they end up, paying for the internship that I did this summer, this past summer.
Jeremy
That's excellent.
Labrina
Yeah.
Jeremy
Let's look down the road a little bit, okay? Ten years, twenty years down the road. What do you want people to say about what kind of lawyer you've become at that point?
Labrina
So, my goal in life is like twenty years from now. I want people to be so educated and so informed about the juvenile justice system, child protective services system.
And I go up all the way to people in their early twenties, because when I came out of the military, I didn't have familiar support, and there was no resources for someone who was just a single person just trying to make it through school. That's why I struggled to get through college, like there were no resources. So, providing resources for people.
So, before you get to the point where you're now a single mom and this is the first time you get help. So what I want is it to be, I want to create the world that I wanted to live in when I was 20 years old, and I know that I'm not going to be able to finish it, but I want to everyone around me to be so informed about it that it's, it's no longer just a pat on the back when you see somebody working two and three jobs trying to make it through, through school, it's no longer a ‘I'm so proud of you’, but more of a ‘let me get you some help because that's not normal’. Like I want you to let me try to see what resources we can pull together, because we want you to be as successful as you can. I'm proud of you. But let's get you some help. And I want to get those resources and that help for people. And that's like, that's, that's my lifetime goal.
I don't even want you to... If you want to think of me as part of that, I'd be so happy. But I'd be happy or happier if you, if, if people can think, when you think of me, think of oh, that's the, that's the girl who talks about the children all the time. That's the lady who's, and think on those things that I'm trying to direct people to.
That's the lady who's trying to bring juvenile justice and Child Protective Services together. I wonder what's happening with that. I saw, I want you to look at a child that you see that's going through something and say, you know what? I know the perfect lawyer. Let me see if I can get her, get her on the phone.
I know somebody who really loves, who can help you in this situation. So that's what I want you to think of when you think of me.
Jeremy
That's great. We've come now to the lightning round.
Labrina
Okay.
Jeremy
Questions are silly. Your answers have to be short.
Labrina
Okay.
Jeremy
What was the last TV show you binge watched? To the extent you've had the time to binge watch anything.
Labrina
Frazier.
Jeremy
Dogs or cats?
Labrina
Dogs.
Jeremy
What is your ultimate comfort food?
Labrina
Oreos.
Jeremy
Good answer. Dress up or stay casual?
Labrina
Dress up.
Jeremy
What's your dream road trip destination?
Labrina
Colorado.
Jeremy
What fictional character do you think you'd actually be friends with?
Labrina
Stewie from Family Guy.
Jeremy
What's the best study break activity?
Labrina
TV.
Jeremy
Music or podcast on a long drive?
Labrina
Podcast.
Jeremy
That is the correct answer, by the way. Breakfast for dinner? Yes or no?
Labrina
Yes.
Jeremy
If you have two free hours. Well, you've already answered. You're going to read a book or watch a TV show?
Labrina
I'm actually going to read a book.
Jeremy
Okay. I'm sorry, I thought that was answered by the last one.
Good for you. Will you relive one perfect day or fast forward five years?
Labrina
Relive one perfect day.
Jeremy
Favorite ice cream flavor?
Labrina
Rocky road.
Jeremy
Also, very good answer. Okay, you've passed the lightning round, and I understand you have a question for me?
Labrina
Yes. So, Dean Counseller, thinking back to when…
Jeremy
Yes, Miss Labrina Ware.
Labrina
Thinking back to when you were just starting law school.
Jeremy
Okay.
Labrina
What is something that has happened in your life, personally or professionally, that you think has fulfilled some of the purpose behind why you started this journey in the first place?
Jeremy
I didn't have, I may have shared with you, your class the past, I can't remember. I didn't have a really high-minded reason to go to law school.
My parents had always told me you should go to law school because I argued a lot I guess. But there's no doubt that my why came kind of after law school with the birth of my son and then my two daughters, and it's like, oh, you know, this is the, they’re the reason why you make the sacrifices you make.
So, so you have that while you're in law school and you have Malik. I didn't have… I had a, my son was born about nine months after, eight or nine months after, I finished law school. And so. And then, of course, I have two more children after that. So, they're really the why for the thing that sort of give it a, give my career a purpose.
And there are, there are other things too. I mean, it's not like they care what I'm doing day to day. They, but other things give meaning to me. I've been surprised by, I guess early on in my career how important is to work with people that you like and that that you respect. And I get to do that here.
And then, something that gives me a lot of purpose is seeing the success of my students. You know, just to see people like you who have overcome incredible things and aren't just going to do well, but aren't going to forget what formed them and where they came from, you know. One of the things I heard a pastor a friend of mine say one time is, he said, ‘God doesn't promise that bad things don't happen, but he will bring good from those things’.
And that's you. And that's what I see in a lot of students. It's, it's, you know, wanting to go out there and do good stuff, not just to want to help, but to have the skills to help and the experience to help.
And that's probably my greatest professional satisfaction. One of the great, the great thing about being a teacher is you get to take a little bit of credit for all of your students’ successes, and that's a, that's a good place to be.
Labrina
Yeah.
Jeremy
Yeah. Labrina, thank you so much. This has been fantastic. We're really proud of you and Malik as he gets, you know, a little bit of legal education along the way.
But so happy to have you here and good luck in the future.
Labrina
Thank you so much for having me.
